March 20, 2008

Y chromosome haplogroups of ancient Southern Siberians from Krasnoyarsk

The samples belonged to the Afanasyevo (which did not yield a result), Andronovo, Tagar, and Tachtyk cultures. The non-R1a1 individual belonged to haplogroup C(xC3) and the Andronovo culture; the 2 other Andronovo individuals belonged to R1a1. This is an interesting result which suggests the presence of an eastern element in steppe cultures that originated by all accounts in the west of the area in question.

Int J Legal Med. 2007 Nov;121(6):493-9.

First successful assay of Y-SNP typing by SNaPshot minisequencing on ancient DNA.

Bouakaze C, Keyser C, Amory S, Crubézy E, Ludes B.

In the present study, a set of 13 Y-chromosomal single nucleotide polymorphisms (Y-SNPs) selected for the identification of the most frequent Asian Y-haplogroups was included in an allele-specific primer extension assay. Single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) genotyping was accomplished by co-amplification of these 13 DNA fragments within 2 multiplex PCRs followed by detection with 1 minisequencing reaction using the SNaPshottrade mark Multiplex kit and analysis of extension products by capillary electrophoresis. First developed on modern samples, the assay was optimized for the analysis of 11 ancient DNA (aDNA) samples from the Krasnoyarsk region (southern Siberia) that were dated from 5,500-1,800 years before present (YBP). SNP typing was successful for most of them, which were all assigned to Y-haplogroup R1a1 except one. These results show that SNPs are well-suited for the analysis of aged and degraded DNA samples. Moreover, we found that the SNaPshot minisequencing methodology is a convenient, robust, and efficient method for SNP typing. To our knowledge, this study reports the first successful investigation of Y-SNPs on aDNA samples. The potential use of Y-SNPs in both evolutionary and forensic fields is also discussed.



Unknown said...

Cataclysmic news friends!!!
AT LAST we can find out both the mtDNA of ancient individuals and the Y-DNA as well.
The best news of the year. I am anxious to see this scientific method being applied to Paleolithic and Mesolithic samples as well. We will be able to retrieve with at least 90% accuracy the routes and racial identity of our ancestors and the creation and development of their various tribes and cultures.
Problems like the emergence of the Cro-magnons, their supposed homogeneity, their genetic affinity and other issues will at last be revealed to us!!!
The first news from this method were very interesting to me. Afanasievo and Andronovo cultures were the eastern spread of the Kurgam culture and the birthplace of Tocharians and Indo-Iranians.
Generally the Samara basin and the southern Urals till the Altai mountains were Indoeuropean back then. The occurrence of R1a1 Hg was another verification that proto-Indoeuropeans had this Hg as their basic one!!!

Future Balance said...

I recall reading about the results of this study last year with the haplogroups included. Is it first now that it has been published in it's entirety?

pconroy said...


How can you be sure this area was the birthplace of Tocharians?

The Tocharians in culture, dress, custom and language are linked to the Celts.

Unknown said...

Kurgan culture and the birthplace of Tocharians and Indo-Iranians.
Tocharians in culture, dress, custom and language are linked to the Celts

Genetically what are the common haplogroups we are talking for these two statements?. Just curious.

Crimson Guard said...

Tocharians linked to Celts? Come on now, lets not be absurd!

Moreover R1a has little to do with Western Europeans and most Europeans in general. Its something more akin to Slavic speakers in the North East of Europe and many Iranians.

Ebizur said...

Haplogroup R1a is common among some "Iranic peoples" (i.e. peoples who speak Iranic languages), such as the Pamiris or "Mountain Tajiks," and not specifically among "Iranians." In fact, the frequency of haplogroup R1a among Iranians in western Iran is insignificant; it is no greater than the "background frequency" of haplogroup R1a that is found among Arabs, Dravidians, populations of western China, etc.

In my opinion, it is not at all clear that haplogroup R1b is any less "Indo-European" than haplogroup R1a. Maybe someone should be looking for evidence of the evolution of these two subgroups of haplogroup R1 in the area where their distributions meet; R1a and R1b are phylogenetic siblings, after all.

Unknown said...

Dear pconroy

The area between the Samara basin and the southern Urals till the Altai mountains was the birthplace of the Tocharians because tools, artifacts, and generally the culture there is considered a progenitor of the Tocharian one.
Elga Khlobystina has made a lot of research there and has found out many sites and burial grounds at Oumbaganta and Oumek Kisintzik that verify this.
Additionally Tocharian language is so archaic that only a very early wave of proto-Indoeuropeans could have justified its archaic and special features. The lack of an Indo-Iranian linguistic substratum to Tocharian proves that their spread to the East WAS BEFORE the settlement of Indo-Iranians to Central Asia.
The Afanasievo culture is the right place at the right time to be the birthplace of the Tocharian tribes!!!
Your correlation of Tocharians with Celts is not sustainable for anthropological and linguistic-archaeological reasons as well!!!

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Anonymous said...


First of all thanks for this fantastic blog, it has a great wealth of information about the human variations and diversity.

There has been discussion about the Tocharians here. I am looking for conrete haplogroup studies on Tocharian remains (mummies etc). It is interesting to have read that they spoke a centum language related to Celtic and Germanic languages, but also that they have carried R1b (altough this needs to be considered with the probability of mixture with other peoples).

There are some things that could make possible centum movement all the way there. In fact, if you study I1b (called I2 now), which formed during the later parts of the ice age from the oldest modern HG in Europe. Directly after the ice age, it spread westward to western Italy, France, and to some degree further and also northward. The I2 subclades of these areas date to between 13 000 and 8000 years ago. However... other than those few places, and especially specific concentrations therein such as islands. It is practicaly non-existant in western Europe.

Which should not come as a surprise, even on the Adriatic Alpic coast, they were depopulated during the neolithic and moved only towards the mainland! Islands like Brac for example, have traces of paleolithic settlements, but nothing from neolithic. Why? Arrival of "early farmers"? Maybe. But during this period, it would explain why it is all the more common in eastern europe while practically non-existant in western europe beside those very few places (altough still not very common in eastern europe either). So in other words, during the neolithic, they for some reason only moved into the mainland, and spread far into the east also, where the subclades are dated thereafter. So how far could they have came?

Now to the last point. These people are thought to have spoken a centum language in that age, before the Slavic languages became dominant. Only towards ~2000-1000 bc would there be major settlements at the coastline, and a new wave of interaction with Greeks, Romans and the products thereof. Even after the arrival of Slavic groups and expulsion of Avars. In some areas, not least deep into the Alp mountains, you will still not find hardly any R1b haplogroups. In fact, for most of Bosnia, the percentage of R1b is ~1 percent or less. R1a (from eastern europe) and I1b (indigenous, in the true sense of the word indigenous) are completely dominant amongst the palelothic groups, even though R1b is actually substantially present in surrounding nations.

R1b in Tocharians would make sense as well though, given that a major R1b group survived on Anatolia during the ice age, and would likely speak a centum language, also.

If anyone can point me to concrete HG studies of Tocharians, i would appreciate it.

Faisal said...

My people have been in Indo pakistan for about 500 years.They came in probably with Babur.My haplogroup is R1b1b1 but traditionally my people have been known as Barlas,a Central Asian Turkic tribe,the one Tamerlane belonged to.Could anyone comment as R1b1b1 were basically Indo-European people.

Billy Winkles the Happy Cat said...


The Barlas clan were supposed to be originally Mongols, that's why Babur's dynasty was called Moghul. But by Timur's time they were Turkic speaking, Muslim in religion, and were increasingly Perso-Turkic in culture (at least those clan members who lived in the cities and at the royal courts). There might have been some lineages in the tribe that went back to the old Indo-European speaking peoples on the steppe who were incorporated into the Mongol tribe that became the Barlas clan. Many Mongol and Turkic tribes were sort of rearrainged by Genghiz Khan for reasons of military expediency. In other words, the old names remained the same, but new tribes were formed by government fiat. In time, some of these tribes became "real" tribes and ethnic groups and forgot that there forefathers were brought together politically and created origin myths claiming kinship amongst all tribal members. I guess a famous, and perhaps the largest, example would be the Hazaras (the "thousanders"), who probably took their name from a Persian translation of a Mongol military group equivalent to a legion.

By the way, I've a question regarding identity. I'm assuming your ancestors have lived in the Punjab for these centuries and been Punjabi speaking. How do did your forefathers define themselves in more recent times: Muslim, Punjabi, or Turki? Perhaps, there are terms I am unaware of. I'm interested in how the descendents of these Central Asians defined themselves after settling in South Asia.

Faisal said...

Living in Punjab since 400 years and claiming Mughal Barlas ancestory but identified as R1b1b1 Y haplo..We presently call ourseld Mughal Barlas..Being a Muslim is not ethnic but a religious thing.Though of orignally a haplo group identified as IE still it would be OK to claim Turkish ethnicity with me as in the last 1500 years we had been regrouped with Turks.

jajju said...

Dear Faisal,

My Family came to India from Bukara in late 18th Century. We claim our ancestery from Amir Timur throgh Ulug Beg. My Haplogroup is J2. There is a group on Family Tree DNA website which has tested people claiming to be desecdant of Timur and 2 haplogroups haev strikely more memebers J2 and C3.

Hoep this helps,