March 28, 2015

Afanasievo, Okunev, Andronovo, Sintashta DNA?

A reader alerts me to this article in Russian, but you can use Google Translate to get the gist of it. Some interesting bits (note that "pit"=Yamna):
I can not ignore the question I now have is particularly exciting - the origin of the Indo-Europeans. Community Indo-Europeists animatedly discussing just appeared as a preprint work of David Raika and his colleagues discovered by studying the genomes of people Neolithic and Bronze Age that a decisive influence on the genetic landscape of Europe has had a migration of people pit culture to the north and west in the middle of the III millennium. BC .e. As a result, according to geneticists, there was a population associated with the Corded Ware culture, and from it are the origin of the later Indo-European. By the same conclusions about the same time came the other team's leading geneticists led by Eske Villerslevom.
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A steppe, we thought had long been a special world, and differs sharply from the Middle East, and from the European. Migration from there - so it seemed - were mainly directed not to the west and to the east, along the steppes, in the direction of Central Asia, which the ancient Indo-Europeans, Afanasiev media culture (descendants of the people of the pit culture or their ancestors steppe) reached no later turn IV- III millennium BC. It is now confirmed and the group Villersleva.
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By the way, it also happens that paleoanthropologists prompted geneticists way of research - and turned out to be right. As it happens, for example, with native Okunevskaya culture of South Siberia. When 20 years ago, we found that craniologically (by a combination of traditional measurement and we proposed new informative features of the structure of the cranial sutures and holes) okunevtsy - "cousins" of American Indians, few believed us. Firstly, in okunevtsah ever seen Caucasoid-Mongoloid Métis like the Kazakhs, and secondly, the ancestors of the Indians withdrew from Siberia to the New World at least 10 thousand. Before the Yenisey there Okunevskaya culture.

Eske Willerslev Now and his colleagues have fully confirmed our conclusion. They confirmed the close relationship between the carriers and the pit Afanasiev cultures and migration ancestors sintashtintsev and Andronov from Europe in the Urals and further to Siberia - but this is already a long time, few archaeologists and anthropologists doubted.
I hope more details will appear soon on what promises to be a very interesting new study. The author seems to be referring to his theory of a relationship between Okunev and Amerindians, and I'm wondering if this is simply "Ancient North Eurasian" ancestry or an even more specific link. Any Russian readers who can dig up more information are invited to post in the comments.

10 comments:

rozenfag said...

I found this presentation: https://www.academia.edu/11530946/%D0%92%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D0%B5%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B2_%D0%B2_%D0%AE%D0%B6%D0%BD%D1%83%D1%8E_%D0%A1%D0%B8%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%80%D1%8C_%D0%B8_%D0%A6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1%83%D1%8E_%D0%90%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%8E_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8%D1%8F_2015_-_The_Second_Wave_of_Caucasoid_Migration_to_Southern_Siberia_and_Central_Asia_PowerPoint_2015_._Please_download_the_presentation--it_gets_badly_distorted_in_the_preview_mode

On the page 23 it says: "First data on Chaa-Khol genetics(D. Reich, not published): man from Aimyrlyg inherited his mtDNA(C4) from siberian mother."

The slideshow is quite recent, so either he mixed up Willerslev and Reich, or they writing a joint paper, or there two parallel projects going on.

Grognard said...

Very cool.

Aram Palyan said...

There is another interesting information about Chemurchek culture that is maybe linked with Proto-Tocharians. They have links with South France Megalithic culture (!!!) and also affinities with Yamna and also one tomb that is perhaps related to South Caucase type. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%83%D1%80%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0

MOCKBA said...

I read the language, Dienekes, but it doesn't really help because I don't know who is who in Russian paleoanthropology circles. Dr.Kozintsev is a proponent of radiation of "Caucasoids" from Western Europe, and he thinks that Yamnaya origins of PIE peoples contradict the available craniology data. He mentions Willerserv's study on this but provides no details. Importantly, the proto-Tokharian affinity to Afanasievo, Sintashta, and Altay bronze age burial wouldn't contradict the Yamnaya hypothesis; it is the direction or at least the magnitude of the gene flow between Europe and the Steppe which he questions.

Gary Moore said...

The Native American component in Western Eurasians most likely is due in part to a more recent back migration from the Americas, and this population brought with them languages that formed the basis of Indo-European.

Kang et al. have published data showing distinctively Native American YHG Q-M3 from individuals from the cemetery at Barköl in the Xinjiang region of China. (See Y chromosomes of ancient Hunnu people and its implication on the phylogeny of East Asian linguistic families. LL. Kang, TB. Jin, F. Wu1, X. Ao, SQ. Wen, CC. Wang, YZ. Huang, XL. Li, H. Li,) The M3 variant of Y DNA type Q is widely thought to have originated in North America and is almost certainly is a marker for a back migration.

Recently, I have been comparing Tocharian to the Iroquoian languages of North America. As I pointed out in an earlier post, the Proto-Tocharian word for 'wagon' closely resembles the modern Cherokee counterpart (with redupilication) and is based on the cognate verb root *PIE *-kwel- / Cherokee -gwal- meaning 'to turn, rotate'.

The form for ‘old’ in most Indo-European languages is based on *PIE *sen- ‘old’ which bears an obvious resemblance to equivalent forms in Dene-Yeniseian languages: ex. Ket sīn, Tlingit shaan (of people) and Navajo sání. However, the form for ‘old’ in Tocharian B closely resembles its equivalent in Iroquoian languages both phonetically and morphologically:

Toch B ktsaitstse ‘old’ ( = -ktsai- + -tstse ).

Compare with: Iroquoian Mingo kekëhtsi (-KËHTSI- Verb Root.) katkëhtsistha' ‘to become old’ (-at- (Middle prefix, -këhtsi- /someone is old/, -st- Base suffix. -atkëhtsist- ) and Iroquoian Oneida: -kstʌ- ‘old, aged’; -kstʌhaˀ- ‘to become old’, both of which are based on *Proto Northern Iroquoian *{ -kẽhtsi- } 'be old’ (Julian).

The Tocharian word for 'dirty', kraketstse ( = -krake- + -tstse ), has the same base suffix as ktsaitstse and, more to the point, this base suffix closely resembles the Iroquoian Mingo counterpart -st-.

While Kang relates the genetic findings from the Barköl site to the hypothesis that the Xiongnu (Huns?) spoke Yeniseian, it is just as likely that they may have spoken a language related to Tocharian, which was attested in the Tarim basin in the same region of western China.

Nirjhar007 said...

Gary, I,m seeing you for longtime suggesting your ideas, do you have any thesis paper that you can link to me?.

capra internetensis said...

The Xinjiang Q-M3 was identified as such by a 10 STR haplotype, I think; the SNP was not actually found.

Gary Moore said...

@Nijhar007 - I have published yet. I am closing in on about 100 pages of material comparing Proto Indo-European and languages of the grouping associated with the hypothetical Macro-Siouan family. I have more time to work on a paper now and I am looking for a suitable forum to publish my thesis.

To my knowledge, no one has published any papers linking Iroquoian to generic Indo-European, other than Albert Gallatin's paper describing the similarity of the aorist voice in Greek to the equivalent in Iroquoian. Gallatin was a proponent of a link between Ancient Greek and Iroquoian, which includes Cherokee - the sole southern Iroquoian language. Gallatin sparred with Henry R. Schoolcraft on the issue of the relationship between Greek and Iroquoian. New York scholar Giles Yates presented a paper in the mid 1800s describing comparisons between Ancient Greek and Iroquoian phonology, but I have been unable to track it down. Perhaps the most enthusiastic proponent of a link between the Iroquoian languages and ancient languages of the classical world was Joseph-François Lafitau, writing in his work Moeurs des sauvages amériquains, comparées aux moeurs des premiers temps (1724) The 19th century ethnologist Horatio Hall alludes to observations by early Jesuit missionaries comparing Iroquoian to Ancient Greek, but but preferred his own theory that Native American languages were somehow derived from the pre Indo-European languages of Europe.

The two papers by Andrew Williamson linking Dakota (and the other Siouan languages) with Indo-European have already been mentioned in these blogs. Contemporary language scholars are certainly aware of Williamson's papers: Wallace Chafe mentions Williamson's papers in his paper titled "The Caddoan, Iroquoian, and Siouan languages" and describes them as "an improvement" over previous speculation regarding the relationship of Siouan to Eurasian languages, but no one seems to have followed up on Williamson's thesis. Now that modern DNA studies have provided credible evidence for fairly recent (i.e. Neolithic) links between Eurasian and North American populations, it seems time to dust off this idea and re-evaluate it.

BTW - I've avoided jumping into the Macro-Siouan controversy, preferring to refer to the language families collectively as the "Siouan-Iroquoian-Caddoan complex", allowing for the possibility that the resemblances of the three language families are due to borrowing and areal influences rather than a true generic link. I think the evidence that the precursor of Proto Indo-European was essentially based on a mash-up of archaic Iroquoian and Siouan is strong. If the Macro-Siouan hypothesis is valid and Iroquoian and Siouan are generically related, then the parent language of Proto Indo-European must have split from archaic North American languages after the Iroquoian-Siouan split.

Gary Moore said...

Speaking of Native American DNA in western Eurasia, I ran across this paper on specific Y DBA Q variants that are apparently shared between Europe and North America:

http://www.thegeneticgenealogist.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/New-Native-American-Haplogroup.pdf

Looking at the Europedia map of YHG Q distribution in Europe reveals some interesting features. The lobe of YHG Q extending from central Europe into France and Switzerland coincides with the core of the Hallstatt and La Tene cultures. (In fact, the area of the peak concentration of YHG Q contains the La Tene site itself.) Likewise, the peak concentration of YHG in northern Europe coincides with the area of the Nordic Bronze Age cultures. There appears to be a case for associating YHG Q with the spread of early Indo-European cultures in Europe.

Nirjhar007 said...

Thank you Gary, I will avidly wait to read your Research when completed!! You can try Academia.edu of course to upload the hypothesis.