January 11, 2010

Guess the origin of these four composites

ANSWER (15/1/2010):

Russian, Cypriot
Romanian, Spanish


These were sent to me by an Italian reader of the blog.

You can guess their country of origin, language group (e.g., Slavic, Germanic, Romance, Finno-Ugrian, Greek, etc.), geographical origin (N/S/W/E Europe or W/S/C Asia), or whatever else you can intuit about them.


Crimson Guard said...

Top Left: Polish
Top Right: Greek
Bottom Left: German
Bottom Right: Italian

eurologist said...

Kind of an unfair comparison - all of them tend to SE Europe.

LT: Ukraine to Baltic

RT: Generalized Norther/East Mediterranean

LB: Romania to Slovakia

RB: Northern Alpine/SE Germany

Unknown said...

they are all canadian

UncleTomRuckusInGoodWhiteWorld said...

LT - Slavic...obviously
RT - Greek
LB - Some type of Germanic
RB - Mediterranean, likely Italian.

Der Frost said...

LT - Ukrainian-Bielorussian
RT - Balkan but not Greek
LB - Romanian-Hungarian
RB - Spaniard

Katharós said...

Looks like a composite of 2 images.

But If I saw these 4 guys on the street I would say.

Top Left: Borderline Polish to German
Top Right: Borderline Italian to Spanish
Bottom Left: Slavic Heading to the Balkans
Bottom Right: Greek - Greco-Roman

AWood said...

Left side seem to be Slavic or Balkan type. Right side are more Meditteranean, possibly Near eastern. None of them look German to me at all.

ashraf said...

top right=Greek-Bulgar-Turk-Andalusian

bottom right=Italian-Spanish

top left=Russian-Ukrainian-Bielorussian

bottom left=Czech-Slovak-Polish

Maju said...

they are all canadian...


Of course! (why not)

My hunch (from left to right and top to bottom):
1. Eastern Europe
2. SE Europe (incl. South Italy) or West Asia
3. Germany
4. Spain or France

Giulia said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gioiello said...

TL: North-East European: hg. R1a1 (the Asiatic origin is clear from the right eye a little bit closer than the left one)
TR: Italian from South Italy: hg. R1b1b2a
BL: South East European: hg. J2
BR: Spaniard, hg. R1b1b2a1

Fanty said...

I better dont read any comments here before I have guessed them.

Top Left:
Finnish or Baltic

Top Right:
Turkish, Greek, Israel - Eastern Regions of the mediteranian sea.

Bottom Left:
Polish, Ukrainian, Russian

Bottom Right:
Portuguese, Spanish, Italian - Western parts of the mediteranian sea.

pconroy said...

TL = East/Slavic - Polish/Belorussian
TR = South East - Southern Italy, Greece, Bulgaria
BL = North East/Baltic - Finn/Estonian
BR = ?? - Austria, Northern Italy, Spanish, Croatian

Morhangeois said...

Top Left: Slav - Czech
Top Right: Greek
Bottom Left:Italina
Bottom Right: Spanish

Polak said...

Hey Gioiello, how come Italians at deCODEme are showing 3 times more East Asian ancestry than me? Are they more R1a1a? Hard to believe.


TL: Ukrainian
TR: Greek
BL: Balkan
BR: Spanish

hjernespiser said...

Top Left: Finnic
Top Right: Southern Europe
Bottom Left: Russian (I have a friend who looks almost exactly like that)
Bottom Right: Germanic

Antonio Pedro said...

four Brazilians :)

Gioiello said...

Polak, I'd be glad to write to you if I know your real name. Perhaps you know I don't like to hide me and others hide themselves.I have always written, also on "dna-forums", that also R1b1b2s have the right eye closer than the left, due to their ancient Asian origin. Of course Eastern R1a1s have more mixture with Asians, like hg. N, then their aspect is more "Asian". I have also supported that probably the ancestors of R1a1, the first wave from Asia present in India, was present also in Rhaetia (DYS392=11), then it isn't said that also East European R1a1 doesn't come from the Italian refugium like R1b1b2 and probably Indo-European languages, linked with Rhaetian-
Etruscan. If you send to me your email address, I'll be glad to write to you. Mine is gioiello.tognoni@gmail.com.

carriall said...

I would place all of four in former Yugoslavia

pconroy said...

Terry said:
I was going to say they were all Irish.

You're kidding right?!

I grew up in Ireland, and TL, TR and BL are definitely not Irish looking, BR is closest to being Irish looking.

pconroy said...

You could find all 4 types in Russia though...

Kepler said...

From top left to right

1. Slavic (rather central or Northern Slavic)
2. Lebanse or Greece or Southern Italy
3. Switzerland-Austria-to-Kosovo
4. Iberic Peninsula or France

AWood said...

"You're kidding right?!"

I think he was. Generally, I would classify West Europeans (including Southern Europe, and North Europe) in the dolichocephalic category, or as I refer to it, "oval-headed". Obviously, there are exceptions but brachycephaly is not that common.

Unknown said...

LT = Slavic
RT = Greek or Balkans or Southern Italy
LB = Southern Germany/Swizerland/Northern Italy/
RB = Portuguese (or a Spaniard)

Anonymous said...

TL: Serbian or Croatian
TR: Italian
BL: Polish
BR: French

Maju said...

On the Irish thingy, I'd say that IMO the bottom left guy is not that far from some Irish phenotypes, though Irish faces are normally quite more rugged (deeper nasion for instance). But there is an "alpinoid/CM" tendency in the Islands, which is not necesarily brachi anyhow (I am brachi and I am longfaced too), just broad-faced.

The bottom right guy is probably too dark for Ireland, though in overall face type is not that far maybe. The two top guys are just too clearly oriental.

Fanty said...

This reminds me to average face experiments of a German university.

that was however not on race but on beauty.

face form 32 male faces blended together:

Dont know if all 32 had been Germans. The blended one looks rather dark...

64 female faces blended into one:

100 randomly picked people, ugliest 4 females blended:

100 randomly picked people, most attractive 4 blended into 1:

same for male:
most ugly 4 males blended:

most attractive 4 males blended:

"Virtual Miss Germany"
8 local beautyqueens blended into 1:

Kepler said...

Maju, although some people from Irish descent told me a story about quite some of the Spaniards from the Armada surviving in Ireland in spite of it all:


I do know two Irish who looked Spanish to me, only that they looked as if they hadn't seen light for at least 400 years :-)

Maju said...

Per Bauchet'07, Iberian (non-Basque) component is more commonly found in England than in Ireland. Basque component is the opposite. Whatever the case they are minor components in either island.

That doesn't mean that people may not look the same occasionally but must be for some other reasons (like older relations not reflected in autosomal clustering or whatever). What I say about broadfaced blond (or red haired) rather pale Irish is true in my experience. I'd even dare say that darker types might be more common in Great Britain in fact.

terryt said...

"You're kidding right?!"

I was actually, although for some obscure reason I did think of Ireland quite qickly when I saw the arrangement. I suspect it was the fact that there is quite a diversity even just within Ireland. But no-one I've seen in or from Ireland has such tightly curley hair as a couple of them have. And, as you say, even the top left doesn't really look Irish.

AWood said...

I hate to bring up Hollywood but I will anyways.
Take the following Irish actors or those of Irish descent.

-Colin Farrell, Pierce Brosnan, Liam Neeson, Cillian Murphy, Johnathan Rhys Meyers, Matthew McConaughey.

All of whom have dolichocephalic heads and are truly representative of the West European skull shape which seem predominant in North and South Europe as well, as well as among Germans. There are a minority of Irish that do have broad skulls, as well as some West Europeans who fit that category but it is in the minority for sure.

pconroy said...

I would rate someone like Aidan Quinn as being typically Irish, and he, like myself, comes from the Center of Ireland - blue eyes, light brown hair, thin lips and/or narrow mouth, narrow nose whether long or short, well developed chin, no brow ridges, relatively close set eyes:

You get a darker type in the South West, like Roy Keane - who still has the narrow mouth, narrow nose, well developed chin, no brow ridges:

Of the 4 images presented, none really has a very narrow nose, all have fuller lips, BL has brow ridges, only BR has closer eyes and a well developed chin.

Maju said...

The list you're posting definitively places Irish in an "Atlantid" (West Med to Nordid) mesocephalic, long-headed continuum. However I was thinking in other not much less representative types like Martin McGuinness, Bertie Ahern or Mary Coughlan, who indeed show a broader face type with "alpinid" affinities, that is not uncommon in Ireland anyhow.

Andrii said...

1 - Ukrainian, Belorussian
2 - Romanian (undoubtedly)
3 - German and Poland, maybe Finno-Ugrian, Russian
4 - French, German

Der Frost said...

"2 - Romanian (undoubtedly)"

Romanian speaking here. I too found it to be simmilar to a type found in Romania, particularly in the southern areas and among the urban population, which I believe is due to historical (from Roman times up to the Phanariotes) mediterranean influence. Though, as said, found in Romania (e.g. http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=dragos+bucurenci&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=7slNS4zLH5yI_Abiv_mfDg&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCsQsAQwAw), I nonetheless classified it as Balkan (but not Greek, as it doesn't exhibit the saggy eyelids and cheeks I associate with Eastern Mediterraneans), since it was the bottom left picture which bears a striking similarity to a type very commonly found in Romania, particularly in the countryside (but I admit that they will rather tend to be more brachi (dinarid?) than the alpinid type presented above)

Unknown said...

TL : Polish-Ukrainian
TR : Italian-Greek
BL : Hungarian
BR : Iberian

read it said...

Bottom right is so beautiful; he's gotta be Greek.

Maju said...

Bottom right is so beautiful; he's gotta be Greek.

I know the answers by now and nope (that doesn't mean that he does not have some Greek blood). He's kinda cute indeed but maybe is the smile and the artificial "perfection" created by the illusory composite.

Anyhow, I want Dienekes to post the answers officially, because I want to make a remark and I'm biting my tongue already for too many hours. :)

Unknown said...

BR is beautiful, (and TR isn't bad either!) and I can't see him as anything other than Italian, unless perhaps from southern France or Iberia. Actually, other than TL I think you could find all of them in one part or another of the Italian peninsula or islands. Even TL is not that different from some of the Italians in the Istria area. If I had to choose different areas. TL Slavic of some sort, TR southern, or southeastern Europe (southern Italy, Greece or Turkey), BL, central Europe(Slovakia, even Austria?

read it said...

"...maybe is the smile and the artificial "perfection" created by the illusory composite."

Yeah, these guys are all improved by the artificially perfect symmetry.

Fanty said...

its not onl the symetry that makes "averaged" faces beautiful.

Its because we dont like things that look not normal.

In an "averaged" face, there are only things wich are "normal".

There was a beauty test.
people had to vote 1-7 (7 cutest and 1 ugliest).

They put some averaged faces in it. (fixed the hair and all, that it looks normal)

The best REAL girl got a average vote of 3.7 (from 7 possible)

The best computergenerated face reached 6.1 (from 7 possible)

With girls, the absolute highest possible cuteness is reached by:

1. Average a face from a lot of faces

2. Bring it to the proportions of a child.

Kind of scary however. ;)


Women with proportions of an adult:

Exactly the same face, but blended 50% into the proportions of a childs face:


Maju said...

I said before I wanted to make a remark as soon as the answers were officially posted, and this is how extremely different are the Romanian and the Spaniard averages!

I say because for example a "Romance" classification, as suggested in the original post would have been totally misleading. And I still have vague memories of Dienekes defending blood closeness between these two extremely different (within Europe) populations just because they speak related tongues (supposedly related to Roman genetic and not just cultural and political expansion). These composites evidence that Romanians cluster with Central or Eastern Europeans and not at all with SW Europeans.

eurologist said...

Yeah, and I actually called the Romanian face (and two others, approximately) in the second post of the thread.

The Spanish face and the Portuguese from the other group (understandably) look quite similar. Although I maintain that there is something northern Alpine about the Spanish face - you can see similar (although with a bit German-ness mixed in) faces from Switzerland to East Bavaria, and even North into Saxony. See, e.g., Michael Ballack: http://images.teamsugar.com/files/users/1/17989/29_2007/HBWrxAqJ_Pxgen_r_467xA.jpg

Maju said...

The Spaniard blend's apportions are very similar to the Hungarian of the other thread, just that the Hungarian is blonder.

The Portuguese blend is also similar to the Spaniard (how can't it) but I find it a little more "Greek" (in fact the blend reminds me to Dienekes in one of his avatars somewhat), that's why I think I called him "undefined South European".

The Romanian and the Polish are also very similar. And the Israeli of the other thread I was tempted to say "Palestinian" though I opted for "North African but maybe too light". How many Arab players does the Israeli selection have?

eurologist said...

And the Israeli of the other thread I was tempted to say "Palestinian" though I opted for "North African but maybe too light". How many Arab players does the Israeli selection have?

Exactly my thoughts - although the players may just (as in many sports and many countries) come from slightly underprivileged portions of the society, and thus e.g. not represent Ashkenazim very well.

Soccer players don't necessarily represent the entire society very well. For another example, until recently, there were few players from the the Eastern German states in the Bundesliga (with Ballack being one notable exceptions).

Ádám said...

About Hungarian pigmentation. Look anthropology maps. Type in google image searcher: "hair color map" or type: "eye color map".
Black hair is not Hungarian, only gypsy (roma) jewish and descendantsd of southern-slavic people have dark-black hair in Hungary.

Ádám said...

vast majority of romanians (as typical balkan people have olive skin dark hair and brown eyes. Just look the anthropology maps of Europe about average pigmentations. (Or go to these countries.)