Something that always seems a little off in looking at averages of Greek mens' faces is the nose.
The nose is too averaged. Many Greeks have a narrow upper nose bridge and a pointier nose than this guy. And some Greeks have a opposite wide nose.
As to the other features, I'd say yes. However, Mr. Average could also be from Western Turkey and parts of Italy. (I covered up the country information on this guy and asked my Greek husband. He also said Italy, Greece or Turkey.)
Marnie, I will not comment on Greece and Turkey, but I do not think he looks from Southern Italy. I reduced the tan and also looked at it in black and white by using Photoshop. In all three cases I think the face has only a, let's say, 25% chance of being from Southern Italy (portion of Italy South of Rome). Not typical. Let's say that if someone told me the person is an Anatolian Turk I would believe it more easily (70% chance guesstimate). But I really don't know Turks that well.
As a Turk I would say that he would very easily pass as a Turk in Turkey. But I should also add that he looks more like western Turks than eastern Turks, because as you travel to east in Turkey Turks start to look more West Asian and less Greek.
Yes, one of the links you put up as an averaged Greek face with a narrower upper nose bridge and a wider, more prominent lower nose.
Jack:
I agree that is not the dominant look in Italy.
This averaged face for me, doesn't capture the breadth of Greek faces. For instance, there are a number of people in Greece that look somewhat like Mr. Kinareh (not the eyes).
I used to think it was just my perception that many Greeks have big, mesmerizing, deep brown eyes. As a child, I became fascinated with a book we had on Byzantine icons. You can't miss the eyes in some of those icons. However, I used to think it was an artefact of the paintings.
That was until a retina specialist friend of ours, someone who has operated on thousands of eyes from people all over the world, told us that the largest eyes he has worked on are Greek eyes.
you think Greek noses don't follow a normal curve but are dimorphic... I seriously doubt that. It would be like saying people are short or tall but rarely average, categorically speaking.
as for other comments when considering the eyes nose and overall face the Greeks form a very good continuum with the Turks, its like there was no barrier (Aegean). And of course the Eastern Turks would start to look different from the Greeks.
on a side not, man the Greeks are in trouble for the WC. Someone should do an average face of the Spanish, they'll probably go far.
I think it would be fun to do an average face matching with all the Mediterranean countries at once.
"The nose is too averaged. Many Greeks have a narrow upper nose bridge and a pointier nose than this guy. And some Greeks have a opposite wide nose."
Yes there are Greeks with a narrow nose (by comparison to the average) and Greeks with a wide nose but the averaged Greek nose is not the odd result of averaging those two. By the normal curve the average nose is the most popular and as you move away from that average the noses become less and less common.
now if you remember the extremes more clearly and think the average nose is not representative then that is just your own distortion of what Greek noses are like.
what was the significance of the post and results from "which of these two women are more attractive". Someone else pointed hot that the woman on the left is more masculine. Have men's preference in women's faces (not just facial expressions) changed over the last 50 years? And do the prefer a slightly more masculine face (adventurous, sexy...)? Also why did the women choose differently from the women?
Stay on topic. Be polite. Use facts and arguments. Be Brief. Do not post back to back comments in the same thread, unless you absolutely have to. Don't quote excessively. Google before you ask.
And here is the composite of the 22 players of the Greek national team in the 2008 UEFA Cup:
ReplyDeletehttp://s876.photobucket.com/albums/ab329/786512/08/?action=view¤t=6d514bd3.jpg
Source: http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/3425796/1/
Also can be found at Racial Reality Blog:
http://racialreality.blogspot.com/2010/06/euro-2008-facial-composites.html
Hmmm, lets see what my radar says...It says he MAY be Greek.
ReplyDeleteSomething that always seems a little off in looking at averages of Greek mens' faces is the nose.
ReplyDeleteThe nose is too averaged. Many Greeks have a narrow upper nose bridge and a pointier nose than this guy. And some Greeks have a opposite wide nose.
As to the other features, I'd say yes. However, Mr. Average could also be from Western Turkey and parts of Italy. (I covered up the country information on this guy and asked my Greek husband. He also said Italy, Greece or Turkey.)
Marnie, what about the 2008 Greek composite I linked above?
ReplyDeleteMarnie,
ReplyDeleteI will not comment on Greece and Turkey, but I do not think he looks from Southern Italy. I reduced the tan and also looked at it in black and white by using Photoshop.
In all three cases I think the face has only a, let's say, 25% chance of being from Southern Italy (portion of Italy South of Rome). Not typical. Let's say that if someone told me the person is an Anatolian Turk I would believe it more easily (70% chance guesstimate). But I really don't know Turks that well.
As a Turk I would say that he would very easily pass as a Turk in Turkey. But I should also add that he looks more like western Turks than eastern Turks, because as you travel to east in Turkey Turks start to look more West Asian and less Greek.
ReplyDeleteOnur:
ReplyDeleteYes, one of the links you put up as an averaged Greek face with a narrower upper nose bridge and a wider, more prominent lower nose.
Jack:
I agree that is not the dominant look in Italy.
This averaged face for me, doesn't capture the breadth of Greek faces. For instance, there are a number of people in Greece that look somewhat like Mr. Kinareh (not the eyes).
Correction: Cappadocian, not Capadocian
ReplyDeletehttp://www.filmizle4.com/vidresim/Avrupali.jpg
ReplyDeleteThe above is how a typical person from Pontus (i.e. Black Sea Coast of Turkey) looks like.
Very typical. I know many Pontians here who look exactly like that, i.e. immigrants from Pontus.
Regarding Greek eyes:
ReplyDeleteI used to think it was just my perception that many Greeks have big, mesmerizing, deep brown eyes. As a child, I became fascinated with a book we had on Byzantine icons. You can't miss the eyes in some of those icons. However, I used to think it was an artefact of the paintings.
That was until a retina specialist friend of ours, someone who has operated on thousands of eyes from people all over the world, told us that the largest eyes he has worked on are Greek eyes.
So, yeah, Greeks aren't squinty eyed.
Greek Eyes in mosaic:
Theotokos Apse Mosaic (Aghia Sophia, Istanbul):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hagia_Sophia_Interior_Virgin_2007.JPG
Saint Demetrius and Children (Aghios Demetrios, Thessaloniki):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dimamosaic.jpg
Alexander the Great mosaic(Naples National Archaeological Museam)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BattleofIssus333BC-mosaic-detail1.jpg
Here is another photo of the Turkish man Achaean linked to:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.eksiduyuru.com/files/1243410327.jpg
Here is him from side-face:
http://i.ensonhaber.com/news/219923.jpg
And this is his childhood photo:
http://www.cemdavran.com.tr/nd/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/cem-davran-paso.jpg
you think Greek noses don't follow a normal curve but are dimorphic... I seriously doubt that. It would be like saying people are short or tall but rarely average, categorically speaking.
ReplyDeleteas for other comments when considering the eyes nose and overall face the Greeks form a very good continuum with the Turks, its like there was no barrier (Aegean). And of course the Eastern Turks would start to look different from the Greeks.
on a side not, man the Greeks are in trouble for the WC. Someone should do an average face of the Spanish, they'll probably go far.
I think it would be fun to do an average face matching with all the Mediterranean countries at once.
To me the picture of the composite Greek team and previously posted composite Turkish team look like the exactly the same person.
ReplyDeletehttp://s876.photobucket.com/albums/ab329/786512/08/?action=view¤t=90726ba8.jpg
Or at laest full brothers. The eyes are a bit different, but that could also be the effect of the smile.
ReplyDeleteThe name of the Turkish man Achaean gave link to is Cem Davran. He is a famous actor in Turkey, so you can easily google his photos.
ReplyDeleteprincenuadha:
ReplyDelete"you think Greek noses don't follow a normal curve but are dimorphic... "
I'd asked that you stop misquoting and distorting my comments.
I did not say that Greek noses are dimorphic or that they don't follow a normal curve.
Fine if you want to make your own comments. However, you seem to have made a part time job of distorting many of my comments.
I would ask that you stop.
http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/3425796/1/
ReplyDeletesome "greek" faces are same as shqiptar faces.
"The nose is too averaged. Many Greeks have a narrow upper nose bridge and a pointier nose than this guy. And some Greeks have a opposite wide nose."
ReplyDeleteYes there are Greeks with a narrow nose (by comparison to the average) and Greeks with a wide nose but the averaged Greek nose is not the odd result of averaging those two. By the normal curve the average nose is the most popular and as you move away from that average the noses become less and less common.
now if you remember the extremes more clearly and think the average nose is not representative then that is just your own distortion of what Greek noses are like.
@dienekes
ReplyDeletewhat was the significance of the post and results from "which of these two women are more attractive". Someone else pointed hot that the woman on the left is more masculine. Have men's preference in women's faces (not just facial expressions) changed over the last 50 years? And do the prefer a slightly more masculine face (adventurous, sexy...)? Also why did the women choose differently from the women?
can you refer me to studies that answer this.
corrections:
ReplyDeleteit should read pointed out - not "hot"
it should read, why did women choose differently from the men?