I read recently that most Argentinians are of South Italian extraction. I think the above explains the similarity of the Argentinian composite with the Greek one.
Dienekes writes: "There are a few non-Spanish surnames in the bunch, and a few Amerindian-influenced individuals, but the Spanish impression is clearly the strongest".
The great Argentinean writer, Jorge Luis Borges, one of the few Argentineans who hadn't an Italian extraction, said that Argentineans were Italians who spoke Spanish. I haven't now (and must go to school) the names of Argentinean players, but Messi, Mascherano, Milito, Cambiasso etc. the same Maradona have an Italian surname and Heinze has a mother of Italian extraction. Among Argentineans the percentage of Italians is higher than the Spanish one and very high is the Amerindian mitochondrial. It isn't true that Argentineans come above all from South Italy. Both in Argentine and Brazil probably North Italians are more than the South ones.
I've heard before that averaged faces are supposed to be good looking. I'd have to say that the Argentina Guy is very good looking but what happened to the Greek? He seems kind of ugly. The other averaged faces just seem kind of OK, but not really good looking.
actually after taking a closer look the composite faces of the European countries tend to be either good looking or average but more are average looking.
Among the 23 Argentinian players are Italian surnames: Demichelis, Di Maria, Messi, Mascherano, Pozo, Burdisso, Bolatti, Palermo, Milito, Burdisso, and probably all the others have some Italian among their ancestors.
The Belgian one is the only accurate representation of NW European face structure. I'm not sure why England is so broad headed. Must be the anomoly Wayne Rooney.
Speaking as an Argentinian and an anthropologist, I would say that although most surnames are foreign, almost 60% of us (as a country) have maternal amerindian lineages (Corach). Lots of surnames are, indeed, Italian or Spanish, but the inmigration was sex-biased - male migrants matched with amerindian women. We Argentinians feel european, but this is a cultural prejudice... we found 70-80% amerindian lineages in lots of provinces, and at least 50% in Buenos Aires.
"I've heard before that averaged faces are supposed to be good looking. I'd have to say that the Argentina Guy is very good looking but what happened to the Greek? He seems kind of ugly. The other averaged faces just seem kind of OK, but not really good looking.
I doubt the averaging of faces is attractive."
It depends on what faces you do averages from.
If you average only ugl faces, the averaged one remains ugly.
If you averag good looking faces, the result is a very attractive face (better than each of the components)
If you average "all kind of" faces, the result is attractive, but not "optimal attractive".
32 German male faces (all kind of attractivity): http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/durchschnittsgesichter/m%2801-32%29_gr.jpg
64 German female faces (all kind of attractivity) http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/durchschnittsgesichter/w%2801-64%29_gr.jpg
Averaged from the top 4% attractivity German females: http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/prototypen/w_sexy_gr.jpg
Averaged from the bottom 4% ugly German females: http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/prototypen/w_unsexy_gr.jpg
Averaged from top 4% attractive German males: http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/prototypen/m_sexy_gr.jpg
Averaged from bottom 4% ugly German males: http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/prototypen/m_unsexy_gr.jpg
.....
There is several explanations of the beauty of averaged faced:
1. averae proportions mean: there is no unusual proportion. Unusual proportions are rated unattractive by many. There is no "too big" and no "too small". Its all right (average)
2. Averaged faces have the tendency to have a perfect skin (highly unusual in real life humans, except they use make up), wich makes them look more attractive.
Additional: People tried to average faces of "Doctors", "Footballplayers", "Bodyguards", "Farmers" etc to get a "Prototype Face" for this job....
So averaging the faces of footballplayers of a nation, doesnt really produce the face of the nation. Because all are professional football players. But professional footballplayers dont look like "normal" people.
Most argentines have italian ancestry, but even then, even more argentines have spanish ancestry.
The italian embassador said three years ago that 60% of Argentines had at least one italian grandparent, but I am sure that over 80% have spanish ancestry, either from the late XIX early XX century immigrants, or from colonial times.
Truth, that means that 56% of argentines have amerindian ancestors, not that argentines are 56% amerindians.
The three ethnicities that contributed more to the argentine ethnogenesis are spaniards, amerindians (I know they are not an ethnicity) and italians, very far behind them you also have jews, central and eastern europeans, and middle easterners (mainly syrians/lebanese and armenians)as important minorities
Argentina isn't you typical latin american country, but it isn't also Australia or NZ
demichelis, burdisso, bolatti, di maria, mascherano, pastore, messi, palermo and milito are italian surnames
9/23
Heinze is German 1/23
The rest are all spanish surnames, except perhaps for Garce that could be french, and Pozo that could be italian (In italian it is Pozzo) but such changes in spelling are not strange here, especially with italian double consonants. Castagna can become Castaña, Gabriela Sabatini had one b instead of two like Rory Sabbatini.
Fanty, you are right, but football is still a better sport than most others for making an average face, at least for Argentina.
If the composite were made of argentine basketball players, it would be an almost completely white one because people with important native american ancestry are rarely tall enough to be basketballers.
With rugby and polo you would have completely white teams because only rich people play those sports.
Football/soccer is the most democratic one, played by all races and social classes, and the closest to being representative of the whole population. And you can be tall or short like Messi and be successful at that sport. Obviously, it isn't 100% representative but it is the most representative sport
On a second look at the Argentinian composite, I think he doesn't look full Caucasoid. There are visible, however small, traces of Amerindian admixture in and around his eyes. But I still agree with Dieneke that he looks closest to Spanish composites among European ones.
The very clear (at least to me) Amerindian traces give the Argentinian composite a unique look, a look that can only be found among Hispanic populations.
El Lurker, you are well informed. Yes, I have thought like you: Pozo is a Spanish surname, but could be also the Italian Pozzo.
I haven't now the list, but Higuain, who has just do three goals, is certainly Basque and not Spanish, and being Spanish and not Italian the language we can suppose that the Italian surnames are certainly Italian and the Spanish ones could be frequently "Spanishized".
In the 12 spanish surnames I counted basques also. otamendi is a basque name too. I counted in the 2 "others" Gabriel Heinze is known to be from a family of Germans of the Volga (Russia). I have left Garcè not identified, its name can have been corrupt in the transcripts. Pozo, I have put him among the Spaniards. I put in the Italian names: DeMichelis, Burdisso, Mascherano, Di Maria, Bolatti, Pastore, Messi, Milito, Palermo. The amerendian characters are brought only by two or three players: Tevez, Romero, and maybe Otamendi and Rodriguez.
Some name can provoke confusion. Many think that Picasso is a Spanish name, because of the famous Spanish painter Pablo Picasso, while it is an Italian name from Genoa. Unfortunately the Argentinians don't follow the Spanish use to add the maternal name to their fathers, otherwise we would have a clear view of their ancestries. Example, the name of the young Uruguayan Gonzalo Barreto Mastropierro, that show his double ancestry .
Stay on topic. Be polite. Use facts and arguments. Be Brief. Do not post back to back comments in the same thread, unless you absolutely have to. Don't quote excessively. Google before you ask.
I read recently that most Argentinians are of South Italian extraction. I think the above explains the similarity of the Argentinian composite with the Greek one.
ReplyDeleteHe doesn't look very similar to the Greek one -in the context of Caucasoids of course. His closest match is to Spain/Spain.
ReplyDeleteThere are a few non-Spanish surnames in the bunch, and a few Amerindian-influenced individuals, but the Spanish impression is clearly the strongest.
I think what he was saying Dienekes, is that to the plain untrained eye...The two look related.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely closer to Iberians than any other group and being rather Atlanto-Mediterranid.
ReplyDeleteDienekes writes: "There are a few non-Spanish surnames in the bunch, and a few Amerindian-influenced individuals, but the Spanish impression is clearly the strongest".
ReplyDeleteThe great Argentinean writer, Jorge Luis Borges, one of the few Argentineans who hadn't an Italian extraction, said that Argentineans were Italians who spoke Spanish. I haven't now (and must go to school) the names of Argentinean players, but Messi, Mascherano, Milito, Cambiasso etc. the same Maradona have an Italian surname and Heinze has a mother of Italian extraction. Among Argentineans the percentage of Italians is higher than the Spanish one and very high is the Amerindian mitochondrial.
It isn't true that Argentineans come above all from South Italy. Both in Argentine and Brazil probably North Italians are more than the South ones.
South European
ReplyDeleteI read 9 italian surnames on 23, 12 are spanish and 2 others.
ReplyDeleteAttention, all of them can be a mix of italian- spanish and other european people.
His closest match is to Spain/Spain.
ReplyDeleteYeah, he exactly looks Andalusi.:)
I've heard before that averaged faces are supposed to be good looking. I'd have to say that the Argentina Guy is very good looking but what happened to the Greek? He seems kind of ugly. The other averaged faces just seem kind of OK, but not really good looking.
ReplyDeleteI doubt the averaging of faces is attractive.
actually after taking a closer look the composite faces of the European countries tend to be either good looking or average but more are average looking.
ReplyDeleteArgentinians have on averag 56% amerindian admixture. There was a study here in this blog about their admixture.
ReplyDeleteAmong the 23 Argentinian players are Italian surnames: Demichelis, Di Maria, Messi, Mascherano, Pozo, Burdisso, Bolatti, Palermo, Milito, Burdisso, and probably all the others have some Italian among their ancestors.
ReplyDeleteThe Belgian one is the only accurate representation of NW European face structure. I'm not sure why England is so broad headed. Must be the anomoly Wayne Rooney.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking as an Argentinian and an anthropologist, I would say that although most surnames are foreign, almost 60% of us (as a country) have maternal amerindian lineages (Corach). Lots of surnames are, indeed, Italian or Spanish, but the inmigration was sex-biased - male migrants matched with amerindian women. We Argentinians feel european, but this is a cultural prejudice... we found 70-80% amerindian lineages in lots of provinces, and at least 50% in Buenos Aires.
ReplyDelete"I've heard before that averaged faces are supposed to be good looking. I'd have to say that the Argentina Guy is very good looking but what happened to the Greek? He seems kind of ugly. The other averaged faces just seem kind of OK, but not really good looking.
ReplyDeleteI doubt the averaging of faces is attractive."
It depends on what faces you do averages from.
If you average only ugl faces, the averaged one remains ugly.
If you averag good looking faces, the result is a very attractive face (better than each of the components)
If you average "all kind of" faces, the result is attractive, but not "optimal attractive".
32 German male faces (all kind of attractivity): http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/durchschnittsgesichter/m%2801-32%29_gr.jpg
64 German female faces (all kind of attractivity)
http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/durchschnittsgesichter/w%2801-64%29_gr.jpg
Averaged from the top 4% attractivity German females:
http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/prototypen/w_sexy_gr.jpg
Averaged from the bottom 4% ugly German females:
http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/prototypen/w_unsexy_gr.jpg
Averaged from top 4% attractive German males:
http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/prototypen/m_sexy_gr.jpg
Averaged from bottom 4% ugly German males:
http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/prototypen/m_unsexy_gr.jpg
.....
There is several explanations of the beauty of averaged faced:
1. averae proportions mean: there is no unusual proportion. Unusual proportions are rated unattractive by many. There is no "too big" and no "too small". Its all right (average)
2. Averaged faces have the tendency to have a perfect skin (highly unusual in real life humans, except they use make up), wich makes them look more attractive.
Additional:
ReplyDeletePeople tried to average faces of "Doctors", "Footballplayers", "Bodyguards", "Farmers" etc to get a "Prototype Face" for this job....
So averaging the faces of footballplayers of a nation, doesnt really produce the face of the nation. Because all are professional football players. But professional footballplayers dont look like "normal" people.
Most argentines have italian ancestry, but even then, even more argentines have spanish ancestry.
ReplyDeleteThe italian embassador said three years ago that 60% of Argentines had at least one italian grandparent, but I am sure that over 80% have spanish ancestry, either from the late XIX early XX century immigrants, or from colonial times.
Truth, that means that 56% of argentines have amerindian ancestors, not that argentines are 56% amerindians.
The three ethnicities that contributed more to the argentine ethnogenesis are spaniards, amerindians (I know they are not an ethnicity) and italians, very far behind them you also have jews, central and eastern europeans, and middle easterners (mainly syrians/lebanese and armenians)as important minorities
Argentina isn't you typical latin american country, but it isn't also Australia or NZ
demichelis, burdisso, bolatti, di maria, mascherano, pastore, messi, palermo and milito are italian surnames
ReplyDelete9/23
Heinze is German 1/23
The rest are all spanish surnames, except perhaps for Garce that could be french, and Pozo that could be italian (In italian it is Pozzo) but such changes in spelling are not strange here, especially with italian double consonants. Castagna can become Castaña, Gabriela Sabatini had one b instead of two like Rory Sabbatini.
Fanty, you are right, but football is still a better sport than most others for making an average face, at least for Argentina.
ReplyDeleteIf the composite were made of argentine basketball players, it would be an almost completely white one because people with important native american ancestry are rarely tall enough to be basketballers.
With rugby and polo you would have completely white teams because only rich people play those sports.
Football/soccer is the most democratic one, played by all races and social classes, and the closest to being representative of the whole population. And you can be tall or short like Messi and be successful at that sport.
Obviously, it isn't 100% representative but it is the most representative sport
On a second look at the Argentinian composite, I think he doesn't look full Caucasoid. There are visible, however small, traces of Amerindian admixture in and around his eyes. But I still agree with Dieneke that he looks closest to Spanish composites among European ones.
ReplyDeleteThe very clear (at least to me) Amerindian traces give the Argentinian composite a unique look, a look that can only be found among Hispanic populations.
ReplyDeleteEl Lurker, you are well informed. Yes, I have thought like you: Pozo is a Spanish surname, but could be also the Italian Pozzo.
ReplyDeleteI haven't now the list, but Higuain, who has just do three goals, is certainly Basque and not Spanish, and being Spanish and not Italian the language we can suppose that the Italian surnames are certainly Italian and the Spanish ones could be frequently "Spanishized".
In the 12 spanish surnames I counted basques also. otamendi is a basque name too.
ReplyDeleteI counted in the 2 "others" Gabriel Heinze is known to be from a family of Germans of the Volga (Russia). I have left Garcè not identified, its name can have been corrupt in the transcripts.
Pozo, I have put him among the Spaniards.
I put in the Italian names: DeMichelis, Burdisso, Mascherano, Di Maria, Bolatti, Pastore, Messi, Milito, Palermo.
The amerendian characters are brought only by two or three players: Tevez, Romero, and maybe Otamendi and Rodriguez.
Some name can provoke confusion. Many think that Picasso is a Spanish name, because of the famous Spanish painter Pablo Picasso, while it is an Italian name from Genoa.
Unfortunately the Argentinians don't follow the Spanish use to add the maternal name to their fathers, otherwise we would have a clear view of their ancestries.
Example, the name of the young Uruguayan Gonzalo Barreto Mastropierro, that show his double ancestry .
What I'm worried about is that Argentine seems to be easily the most likely to win the World cup on performance so far.
ReplyDelete