tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post9149838254974983467..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Homo erectus soloensis fades into the past...Dienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-1207195745152644252015-04-06T08:41:39.786+03:002015-04-06T08:41:39.786+03:00Heidelberg is too close to us to account for the i...Heidelberg is too close to us to account for the introgression of the microcephalin genome which split of 1.7 million years ago and rejoined 30k ago. There's no evidence of heidelberg culture in SE asia. Do'nt let the PC police make you believe that the 30k australians,20k kow swamp, and 12k balangoda specimans don't have any erectine features.<br />Man had to skirt around India and SE Asia for a long time, and we know he assimilated genes from a 3rd hominid in at least one of those places. So all this means is that we still don't have a specimen of the hominid after all...although soloensis is probably the ancestor of that hominid.Joe Lyonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07853388386082915414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-72715722689452184712015-04-06T08:20:57.911+03:002015-04-06T08:20:57.911+03:00I sure hope soloensis descendents survived until 5...I sure hope soloensis descendents survived until 50k...otherwise we assimilated the microcephalin gene that took over the world from hobbits.Because it sure wasn't neanderthal or "denisovan" we got it from, and therefore it probably wasn't red deer cave mutt either.<br />I'd hate to think that we were being kept out of the most desireable land on the planet by 3 footers from 115k to 30k ago. I'd hate to think that midgets with brains the size of grapefruits are the big mystery hominid in the denisova genome. <br />/sarcasm off<br />Sundaland is flooded, only it's mountains remain...and only inbred redneck throwbacks lived in the mountains when it was a tropical paradise twice as big as India. Most likely, the only time sundalnd produced fossils was when it was flooded.....when it wasn't, the hills would be too sparsely populated to produce fossils. And that's exactly what we see...Joe Lyonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07853388386082915414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-45510238734890147362011-07-01T12:53:44.251+03:002011-07-01T12:53:44.251+03:00@terryt
I agree - jungles have been shunned by mo...@terryt<br /><br />I agree - jungles have been shunned by most human groups and have never resulted in appreciable population densities, and the location and timing of "Denisovan" gene contribution is completely up in the air (somewhere between Africa and Asia, sometime between 200,000 and ~50,000 years ago).<br /><br />Also, erectus simply was not a target mating partner, while Heidelbergensis-like was - at least up until about ~50,000 years ago, when it seems a huge number of things changed rapidly in Eurasia.<br /><br />Sure, the presence of Neanderthals in Europe and West Asia was a hindrance, and so likely was the presence of Heidelbergensis-like in much of Asia. But something else changed ~50,000 years ago that became a turning point. Before than, AMHs tried for ~100,000 years and could not make a dent in Eurasia. After that, everything seems just too easy.eurologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03440019181278830033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-84808130390460188682011-07-01T11:53:55.620+03:002011-07-01T11:53:55.620+03:00"This is not a good fit for the usual model i..."This is not a good fit for the usual model in which modern humans who arrive in virgin territory are fruitful, multiply, establish a permanent presence and have dramatic ecological effects" <br /><br />Perhaps the region was not exactly prime homo habitat, so no major population expansion. Humans seem much more suited to savanah rather than dense forest. <br /><br />"We know, for example, from Denisovian DNA that some hominin was in Asia as of the arrival of the Out of African AMHs in Asia near the jumping off point for Papua New Guinea ca. 45kya" <br /><br />We don't actually 'know' that the Denisova DNA was present somewhere 'near the jumping off point for Papua New Guinea' any time long before 45kya. Perhaps the population that reached that 'jumping off point' had carried the DNA all the way from where the Denisova DNA was found, somewhere near the Altai.terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-37691134793667710672011-06-30T20:53:52.561+03:002011-06-30T20:53:52.561+03:00The report leaves more questions than answers.
Th...The report leaves more questions than answers.<br /><br />The problem is that especially given the patchiness of the homo erectus record in Asia, that absence of evidence isn't necessarily evidence of absence. <br /><br />We know, for example, from Denisovian DNA that some hominin was in Asia as of the arrival of the Out of African AMHs in Asia near the jumping off point for Papua New Guinea ca. 45kya, but have very little in the way of fossil record or tool kit artifacts to support that. The period for which we have rich Neanderthal archaeology in Europe and the Near East, we seem to have little of in Asia. Even our dating for megafauna extinctions seems to be comparatively fuzzy for coastal route Asia relative to Europe or the Americas or Australia or Siberia.<br /><br />If Homo Erectus was gone, or had greatly reduced numbers by the time that AMHs arrive, the question is what did them in?<br /><br />Is an absence of evidence a functioon of insufficient scientific manpower/archaeological effort in the region, poor preservation conditions (much of the area of wet and hot), local hominin's use of organic rather than stone tools (e.g. bamboo), or did local Homo Erectus just create fewer identifiably Homo Erectus artifacts, since even at the best African sites their tools are much harder to distinguish from random rocks and brushfires than MSA Neanderthals or AMH artifacts, which are still harder to distinguish from random background than post-MSA AMH materials.<br /><br />Alas, paleoclimate data from ca. 600kya to 20kya doesn't seem to be nearly as detailed in Asia as it is in Europe and North Africa, and the climates systmes are distinct enough there that naiively inferring one from the other probably isn't valid for anything but sea level.<br /><br />A related absence of evidence/evidence of absence connundrum is the AMH skeletal record in Asia. We have count on your fingers sites of morphologically distinct AMHs from South Asia to all points east in the time period from ca. 100 kya to 50 kya with little eivdence of megafauna extinction, and with some arguable flow over to a few early (i.e. ca. 14kya to 16kya) Paleo-Amerindian sites, whose distinctiveness is hard to assign to genetics v. environment, and then a regular record of modern human activity. This is not a good fit for the usual model in which modern humans who arrive in virgin territory are fruitful, multiply, establish a permanent presence and have dramatic ecological effects, although it does show some parallels to the Levatine AMH presence from ca. 100 kya to 75 kya. Why did Eurasians seem to stumble for the first 50kya out of Africa and then start thiriving ca. 50kya?Andrew Oh-Willekehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537151821869153861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-49096536199217477752011-06-30T04:14:08.677+03:002011-06-30T04:14:08.677+03:00Hmm hope they plan to date the Lake Mungo erectus ...Hmm hope they plan to date the Lake Mungo erectus too.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11000684388615334278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-89575212866463706662011-06-30T03:43:31.134+03:002011-06-30T03:43:31.134+03:00That makes much more sense.
I wouldn't be sur...That makes much more sense.<br /><br />I wouldn't be surprised if erectus had been replaced by Heidelbergensis-like populations between 200,000 and 150,000 years ago in most of Asia.eurologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03440019181278830033noreply@blogger.com