tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post9138171625638228516..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Y chromosomes and mtDNA in Bronze Age Tarim basinDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-33680984433649424192010-02-21T09:23:36.443+02:002010-02-21T09:23:36.443+02:00Did a little more googling to try to get to the bo...Did a little more googling to try to get to the bottom of thick hair fibers in Northern Europeans. (I will confess that I have always wondered about the hair texture that has run in our family for at least four generations.)<br /><br />Surprisingly enough, the cause does not appear to be the EDAR gene, but another gene called TCHH.<br /><br />Here's the paper:<br /><br />http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2009/11/straight-hair-in-europeans.html<br /><br />Sorry for going OT!Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-11323230013814709192010-02-21T04:35:13.010+02:002010-02-21T04:35:13.010+02:00Much more likely that the women are the basal popu...Much more likely that the women are the basal population and R1a1a is a later male layer. Like in South America.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11000684388615334278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-58022677295355072982010-02-20T07:00:41.234+02:002010-02-20T07:00:41.234+02:00My bad, Dienekes. You are right on the link issue....My bad, Dienekes. You are right on the link issue. Thanks for the clarification anyhow - I remember now. :)<br /><br />As I said then, the evidence for such construct in NW Europe and Central Asia is weak, one for being limited to one individual (Cheddar Man) and the other for being limited to "recent" aDNA (post-Neolithic). Also there's no single cultural entitity agglutinating such a wide area since Gravettian times (though this should not be a big deal because obviously U is older, surely dating to the colonization of West Eurasia c. 50-40 Ka ago). <br /><br />I'd argue that U5 may be related with Gravettian expansion and that's why it's more common towards NE Europe, where this culture persisted for longer. U4 may have just spread with it but rather restricted to the Eastern areas. Other Us (U2, U7, U8/K, U6, U3, etc.) seem rather unrelated. I'd rather study each lineage on its own, as after all, they each have different scatter areas. Your area, with all the reserves I have, would be best described as U5+U4, distinct from the U5 only found in the West (also old) and the other rather well defined U-number areas.<br /><br />So I would agree in an ancient dominance of U5/U4 in NE Europe with some scattering to the east in later times and some unclear issues in Germany.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-77633637071213450182010-02-20T03:46:32.596+02:002010-02-20T03:46:32.596+02:00"I believe EDAR is under selection, no? So it..."I believe EDAR is under selection, no? So it wouldn't be a good candidate, even if it weren't just a single locus."<br /><br />Hmmm. OK. Just curious to know if a "Scythian" genetic contribution ever made it into Eastern Europe at some point. <br /><br />There seems to be quite a bit of Scythian iconography that appears in Eastern Europe. Quite a bit in the Orthodox Church, for instance. So I'm wondering how that came to be.<br /><br />On an unrelated note, some Europeans do seem to to have extremely fat straight Asian like hair fibers, even if their hair color is not black. I'm curious to know when this trait appeared in Europe. <br /><br />Just some thoughts. Maybe not understandable at this point.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-89422001970234833252010-02-19T22:55:34.705+02:002010-02-19T22:55:34.705+02:00>> as the link leads to the post on Bramanti...>> as the link leads to the post on Bramanti's paper<br /><br />No, the post on Bramanti's paper is<br /><br />http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/09/central-european-farmers-not-descended.html<br /><br />and the link is:<br /><br />http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/09/some-mtdna-links-between-europe-and.html<br /><br />in which I write:<br /><br />" I will simply say that <b>the recent results of Bramanti et al. for a U-dominated older mtDNA stratum in Central/North-eastern Europe can be reasonably extended to cover both North-western Europe and northern Eurasia up to Lake Baikal</b>, the prehistoric limit between Caucasoids and Mongoloids.<br /><br /><b>This boreal zone of U dominance</b> contrasts with that of the Neolithic and Bronze Age inhabitants, where the familiar mix of ten or so main Caucasoid haplogroups makes its appearance, in various proportions and in various degrees of admixture at the eastern end of its expansion. "<br /><br /><i>But anyhow, mtDNA U is just a too large concept</i><br /><br />The fact that U was dominant in a region does not mean that it was/is absent elsewhere.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-21062837251741346442010-02-19T22:45:28.522+02:002010-02-19T22:45:28.522+02:00I hate to get on your case about those EDAR genes,...<i>I hate to get on your case about those EDAR genes, but wouldnt' a Euro distribution map of EDAR genes be a good way to trace your pendulum hypothesis, especially on its swing back from the Asian steppe into Europe?</i><br /><br />I believe EDAR is under selection, no? So it wouldn't be a good candidate, even if it weren't just a single locus.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-13530948593723411382010-02-19T21:49:35.956+02:002010-02-19T21:49:35.956+02:00"... my theory of a boreal mtDNA-U zone"..."... my theory of a boreal mtDNA-U zone"...<br /><br />Not sure what you mean, as the link leads to the post on Bramanti's paper, where I don't recall you had any such theory. But anyhow, mtDNA U is just a too large concept, with offshoots everywhere, from India to Morocco, many of great age depth by all accounts. You must be talking of the U5/U4 dominated NE European area (maybe adding the U2 of Kostenki to it?)Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-7159540317457682772010-02-19T21:41:33.199+02:002010-02-19T21:41:33.199+02:00Dienekes,
I hate to get on your case about those ...Dienekes,<br /><br />I hate to get on your case about those EDAR genes, but wouldnt' a Euro distribution map of EDAR genes be a good way to trace your pendulum hypothesis, especially on its swing back from the Asian steppe into Europe?<br /><br />Or maybe the EDAR gene is just too old.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.com