tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post8701383642494678069..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Uyghurs as an admixed not source population (Xu et al. 2009)Dienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-29197712736955962512010-07-03T18:00:51.894+03:002010-07-03T18:00:51.894+03:00What's the difference between a 'race'...<i>What's the difference between a 'race' and a 'subspecies'? The terms are used fairly interchangably for other species. It's only by convention that we don't use 'subspecies' when we refer to different human populations.</i><br /><br />Totally agree.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-49682616489534530902009-07-05T03:13:30.458+03:002009-07-05T03:13:30.458+03:00"IMO, we will find that in Africa there are P..."IMO, we will find that in Africa there are Pygmy (and maybe Khoisan), and Afrasians, with West Africans being a hybrid of the two". <br /><br />I've had time to consider your suggestion. So first off are Pygmies a single population, related to Khoisans, or are they the product of various groups of people who've been able to adapt to living in the dense jungle? If the latter they are not a main cluster. If the former I'm more than happy to include them as a main cluster. But they would easily fit into a South and East African cluster anyway. <br /><br />Whether or not Pygmies and Khoisan are related it's widely accepted that any connection has been severed by a migration south and east of farming people originating in West Africa. The question arises: were these West African people actually the product of a hybrid swarm between two main clusters: Pygmies and Afraisians? <br /><br />I can easily accept an expansion of Afrasian genes through the Sahel, possibly associated with cattle-raising. But did the Afrasian expansion take place through an Africa already occupied, and differentiated? In fact coastal people such as Ashanti, Ibo, Yoruba, and perhaps even Wollof, display a lesser influence of Afrasian genes. The question again arises: are these West Africans, and those who carried agriculture south and east, really the product of a hybrid swarm of Pygmies and Afraisians? If so they are not a main cluster. Otherwise they are. <br /><br />Besides which, weren't the Afraisians simply the product of a hybrid swarm between Africans and Asians in the first place, and so not a main cluster?terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-34596179667048446702009-07-04T06:46:10.854+03:002009-07-04T06:46:10.854+03:00"Accepting existence of race, but not subspec..."Accepting existence of race, but not subspecies is the norm today". <br /><br />What's the difference between a 'race' and a 'subspecies'? The terms are used fairly interchangably for other species. It's only by convention that we don't use 'subspecies' when we refer to different human populations.terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-21113684595194494652009-07-03T20:12:40.040+03:002009-07-03T20:12:40.040+03:00Onur -
Race doesn't mean subspecies. It may h...Onur -<br /><br />Race doesn't mean subspecies. It may have meant that to Coon, but we don't use that term in other species when referring to subspecies. I would define race to mean clusters. Accepting existence of race, but not subspecies is the norm today.<br /><br />Everyone -<br /><br />I don't think this study was a waste of time. Sometimes, looks can be deceiving and if they keep doing this on central asian populations, they may yet find people who are #1 or a mixture of #1 and #2...pinkboihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00798338019604653118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-62200693664514810882009-07-02T20:56:05.516+03:002009-07-02T20:56:05.516+03:00Dienekes,
I agree to both points. Yes, the intere...Dienekes,<br /><br />I agree to both points. Yes, the interesting thing is to do the same analysis in Africa.<br /><br />Terryt,<br /><br />IMO, we will find that in Africa there are Pygmy (and maybe Khoisan), and Afrasians, with West Africans being a hybrid of the two.pconroyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10312469574812832771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-54955275120404693522009-07-02T12:15:15.253+03:002009-07-02T12:15:15.253+03:00I don't think it's self-evident to people ...I don't think it's self-evident to people (although it is to me) that the Uyghurs are admixed. I recall that Spencer Wells documentary for example, who went to Central Asia to find the "missing marker" or whatever, and he started commenting on the mixed European/East Asian facial features of his host as if he was ancestral to both Europeans and East Asians.<br /><br />Moreover, the analysis done here can be extended to other regions of the world (e.g., Africa) where historical/archaeological traditions are more ambiguous, i.e., where both alternatives are a priori valid as hypotheses.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-50890122950822224432009-07-02T02:22:12.481+03:002009-07-02T02:22:12.481+03:00"On one side, there are main clusters, some o..."On one side, there are main clusters, some of which are very big". <br /><br />What do you accept? <br /><br />I'd claim at least five main clusters: Caucasoids and Mongoloids obviously make up two different clusters. I would also separate the Australoids into another cluster and divide Africa into two, West and an East/South combination. All other groups being a product of hybridisation, just like the Uyghurs. So how did these five very different clusters originate?terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-21335290049585815002009-07-01T12:57:25.003+03:002009-07-01T12:57:25.003+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-77056985067801710352009-07-01T12:54:15.055+03:002009-07-01T12:54:15.055+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-91391978354212369722009-07-01T06:48:15.472+03:002009-07-01T06:48:15.472+03:00Who considers #1 to be a possibility? It seems red...Who considers #1 to be a possibility? It seems redundant to do studies like this. While I believe race exists, there are usually no sharp, fixed lines between them. We often find continuums. From where the Uyghurs live, the farther west you go, the more caucasian the populations get, and the farther east you go, the more mongoloid.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08714736540800070703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-86610443866048935522009-07-01T06:46:30.297+03:002009-07-01T06:46:30.297+03:00Yes it is a rather peculiar idea, that the Uyghur ...Yes it is a rather peculiar idea, that the Uyghur population is anything other than an admixed population. Had the Uyghurs been an ancestoral population contributing to both the East Asian genepool and European genepool then their population today would contain a vast array of phenotypes from the European norm to the East Asian norm and many forms of intermediates. Instead they present a more or less uniform mix of phenotypes without the "extreme" European or East Asian looks.<br /><br />I hate to say this, but the study is a waste of time and money.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-9777720796386545712009-07-01T04:30:48.757+03:002009-07-01T04:30:48.757+03:00What this paper does, is to show that Uyghurs are ...What this paper does, is to show that Uyghurs are best explained as a mixture of Caucasoids and Mongoloids (#2) rather than #1.<br /><br />Are there many who consider #1 a significant possibility.e-burkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04755996077531260946noreply@blogger.com