tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post8087089896758251287..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Stephen Jay Gould: incompetent or biased?Dienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-32580526539472784852015-11-16T16:31:30.990+02:002015-11-16T16:31:30.990+02:00Beware of popularizers (of science or most anythin...Beware of popularizers (of science or most anything else). they popularize themselves and their personal agenda. If, in the process, corners must be taken in the pursuit of personally convenient truth, corners will be taken.<br /><br />Better to look to scientific offerings that do not descend to popularization. This is not a sure fire way to guarantee veracity (personal agenda and pet assumptions are inevitable), but it certainly adds to the potential for an unblemished examination of a clearly stated object of inquiry.<br /><br />No approach can claim perfection -- but popularization tends to move away from veracity like same charged magnetic poles.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06987545006207221297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-41906377679963229992013-09-05T20:51:36.933+03:002013-09-05T20:51:36.933+03:00I never bought into any of the charges brought pos...I never bought into any of the charges brought posthumously against Gould. The man was a brilliant and open-minded scientists, who made (real) contributions, to his field. A handful of objections he made against IQ (the convenient assumption of constancy of intellignece, heritability, and genearlity of intelligence), remain unanswered by IQ proponents. All of this can't be said of the Jensens, RUshtons, Gottfiredsons, and certainly not Morton. blogmasterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11834163614642737338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-26916571186506565732013-01-22T17:35:09.776+02:002013-01-22T17:35:09.776+02:00"I wouldn't be so aggressive against him;...<br />"I wouldn't be so aggressive against him; he was trying to make a political point in a racist society." -- Antonio Pedro<br /><br />Mayhap you are referring to the racist bias in favor of mestizos in the Mexican society, Tony?<br /><br />As for your sentiment, on its own merits, it fails. Consider the long, slow collapse of the American civilization, which can fairly be credited to the pursuit of the noxious ideas contained in the work of John Rawls. Gould's popular work was infused with the self-same assumptions of human behavior and society that have have come to constitute what is (laughably and tragically) called "social science". scp1957https://www.blogger.com/profile/16529504597505427524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-20039226624294100132011-07-20T20:41:29.753+03:002011-07-20T20:41:29.753+03:00"Gould was a marxist liar, Lewontin was incom..."Gould was a marxist liar, Lewontin was incompetent, and Jared Diamond" <br /><br /><br />Gould had zero interest in the truth. His work was an attempt to descredit the now widely accepted and proved racial differences in IQ as they conflicted totally with his left wing political beliefs. He had an ideal he wanted people to believe in and wasn't above manipulating data.<br /><br />It should have been called 'the mismeasures of Gould'.<br /><br />One of my relatives (working in PNG) knew Jared Diamond and delighted in telling me he's as nutty as a snickers bar. He's not a man who's work I'd take seriously after reading his book, anyway.mathildahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06682429587184048584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-74147686335636802252011-06-30T23:29:17.187+03:002011-06-30T23:29:17.187+03:00One of my favorite TV shows from the 90s was North...One of my favorite TV shows from the 90s was Northern Exposure. There was an episode in which the astronaut character Maurice played by Barry Corbin had two literature professors over for dinner. One of them was a traditionalist who loved 19th century American literature and the other was post-modern critic. After diner they started talking and it got out of hand and then they started arguing like crazy. At that point Maurice yells to interrupt the argument and says "Guys! Guys! It's just literature!." If this string of conversion, although interesting, were acted out, I would be tended to interrupt it and say "It's just anthropology!"Daniel Mulvihillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08265229422686001699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-1561456271647225182011-06-17T06:43:44.511+03:002011-06-17T06:43:44.511+03:00Now we have infinitely more data than Morton in 18...<i>Now we have infinitely more data than Morton in 1849. What is this obsession of yours and of Gould to find out 150 years later Morton's level of precision? We dont need Morton's data and his speculations on racial characteristics belong to his time and place. No one takes them seriously. Gould was beating a horse long dead. He was fighting political racism and he said so. The only people to whom "racial science" had ever been applied is the Jewish people, so Gould felt he was fighting for his life. Gould was an excellent snail taxonomist and we need to move on.</i><br /><br />J, if you think that it is OK to lie about physical anthropology for "political" reasons, then why should we believe you when you say that "we dont need Morton's data and his speculations on racial characteristics belong to his time and place"?<br /><br />Surely we should be all the more careful to objectively consider the matter seeing as some "scientists" show a politically motivated desire to lie about it.apostateimpressionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08992369104954433139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-82855080040276163452011-06-15T18:51:14.541+03:002011-06-15T18:51:14.541+03:00John Hawks on Gould
"Some of Gould's mis...<a href="http://johnhawks.net/weblog/topics/meta/gould-morton-lewis-2011.html" rel="nofollow">John Hawks on Gould</a><br /><br />"Some of Gould's mistakes are outrageous, with others it is hard for me to believe that the misstatements were not deliberate misrepresentations."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-77224614236439468362011-06-13T12:59:15.235+03:002011-06-13T12:59:15.235+03:00What is this obsession of yours and of Gould to fi...<i>What is this obsession of yours and of Gould to find out 150 years later Morton's level of precision? We dont need Morton's data and his speculations on racial characteristics belong to his time and place. No one takes them seriously.</i><br /><br />Did you read the whole study? I did before writing my first comment. Morton's measurements are still reliable, irrespective of whether or not his interpretations are reliable today. So before attempting to write "no one takes Morton seriously" you should seriously consider Morton's achievements in physical anthropology.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-39291410223557628972011-06-11T04:31:17.113+03:002011-06-11T04:31:17.113+03:00Jared Diamond also seems to advocating a particula...<i>Jared Diamond also seems to advocating a particular egalitarian position and omits research that contradicts that position.</i> - M<br /><br />Diamond's position on ethnicity and intelligence is not egalitarian. He believes that people from New Guinea are in general more intelligent than North Americans, because the former are good at staying on poorly-marked trails while the latter watch too much TV.<br /><br />This level of "psychometric inquiry" garnered no criticism from the mainstream left. Factor analysis, on the other hand, is considered "racist junk science".B322https://www.blogger.com/profile/18257802768718375656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-60892090951877198272011-06-11T04:29:02.729+03:002011-06-11T04:29:02.729+03:00It seems unlikely someone as smart as Lewontin cou...<i>It seems unlikely someone as smart as Lewontin could just be described as incompetent.</i> - M<br /><br />If Lewontin invented his fallacy to confuse people and stifle curiosity about an interesting question, he was highly competent.B322https://www.blogger.com/profile/18257802768718375656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-5350250332681404802011-06-10T21:44:52.456+03:002011-06-10T21:44:52.456+03:00Not long ago (2002-2003) there were studies first ...Not long ago (2002-2003) there were studies first refuting Boas, then other reconfirming, and a third one trying to reconcile both the refutation and the reconciliation somehow. Let's see how it's gonna be in this case.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-39748823600347426022011-06-10T15:58:46.921+03:002011-06-10T15:58:46.921+03:00Now we have infinitely more data than Morton in 18...Now we have infinitely more data than Morton in 1849. What is this obsession of yours and of Gould to find out 150 years later Morton's level of precision? We dont need Morton's data and his speculations on racial characteristics belong to his time and place. No one takes them seriously. Gould was beating a horse long dead. He was fighting political racism and he said so. The only people to whom "racial science" had ever been applied is the Jewish people, so Gould felt he was fighting for his life. Gould was an excellent snail taxonomist and we need to move on.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05676167615981895061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-48681989653918358172011-06-10T11:00:02.360+03:002011-06-10T11:00:02.360+03:00@ M
Agreed. Lewontin will be remembered more for h...@ M<br />Agreed. Lewontin will be remembered more for his Fallacy than his objectivity though, and those who 'omit research' cannot claim it fully.Royhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04616142288050209324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-82420801377311151172011-06-10T01:55:29.196+03:002011-06-10T01:55:29.196+03:00I read the whole study (open access). It's eve...I read the whole study (open access). It's even worse then I had thought after reading Dienekes' notes about it. The "errors" are much more than just the cranium capacity measurements. It looks to me like this is more intentional rather than a subconcious bias on the part of Gould.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-86512473469336646342011-06-10T00:14:06.078+03:002011-06-10T00:14:06.078+03:00***You want the truth? Gould was a marxist liar, L...***You want the truth? Gould was a marxist liar, Lewontin was incompetent, and Jared Diamond ***<br /><br />It seems unlikely someone as smart as Lewontin could just be described as incompetent. He makes it pretty clear that his social views and marxist beliefs influenced his science. EO Wilson & Steven Pinker have written about this.<br /><br />Jared Diamond also seems to advocating a particular egalitarian position and omits research that contradicts that position.Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01133142115539961665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-45489925710864926632011-06-10T00:07:09.368+03:002011-06-10T00:07:09.368+03:00I remember some reviews of Mismeasure cited a 1988...I remember some reviews of Mismeasure cited a 1988 paper by JS Michael which concluded Morton had conducted his measurements with integrity and any errors were in a different direction to those suggested by Gould. <br /><br />I see the authors of this paper found Michael's paper was itself flawed, although he was at least prepared to question Gould's findings. <br /><br />Michael J. S (1988) A new look at Morton's craniological research. Curr Anthropol 29: 349–354.Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01133142115539961665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-39587421339258383002011-06-09T15:09:32.348+03:002011-06-09T15:09:32.348+03:00@Dienekes
All scientific work is to some extent bi...@Dienekes<br />All scientific work is to some extent biased. For competent scientists, initial biases are the starting point of an investigation. As soon as the investigation turns up facts that contradict these biases they correct them. This is a difficult standard to live up to but live up to it we must.Charles Nydorfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16291667302870991631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-15716209267126263232011-06-09T14:30:21.349+03:002011-06-09T14:30:21.349+03:00@ Truthplease
You want the truth? Gould was a mar...@ Truthplease<br /><br />You want the truth? Gould was a marxist liar, Lewontin was incompetent, and Jared Diamond in failing to mention the crucial role of 'African' diseases in Haiti (in his book Collapse) distorts its history by ignoring what might be perceived to be 'racial'.Royhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04616142288050209324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-37022627481102614462011-06-09T14:09:56.883+03:002011-06-09T14:09:56.883+03:00Those of you who think Gould was an honest scienti...Those of you who think Gould was an honest scientist should read pp. 109-110 in "Mismeasure of Man." There, Gould criticizes H. T. Epstein's analysis of head size vs. profession. Epstein, following correct statistical procedure, used the standard error of the means in his comparison of mean head sizes. Gould makes the absurd claim that Epstein should have used the standard deviations of the samples.<br /><br />Gould used statistics in his own research, so it is hard to believe that this was an honest error.sykes.1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10954672321945289871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-24515580892074466542011-06-09T06:03:28.019+03:002011-06-09T06:03:28.019+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.lkdjfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03514846090932680966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-70987239245155697552011-06-09T02:30:01.682+03:002011-06-09T02:30:01.682+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.lkdjfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03514846090932680966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-52578760996145945962011-06-09T01:12:11.130+03:002011-06-09T01:12:11.130+03:00If the results of this paper are accurate (they se...If the results of this paper are accurate (they seem to be so), it is gratifying and encouraging, for the sake of justice, to hear that Samuel George Morton, the father of American physical anthropology, has been finally acquitted of the false charges of Gould and retrieved his lost reputation after 30 years of detraction. So it is now Gould who should be brought to trial by the scientific community.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-47504163009757344572011-06-09T00:40:34.141+03:002011-06-09T00:40:34.141+03:00It is very fortunate that the Morton collection su...It is very fortunate that the Morton collection survived making it possible to check Stephen Jay Gould's assertions.Charles Nydorfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16291667302870991631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-62683724244956105692011-06-08T18:01:27.209+03:002011-06-08T18:01:27.209+03:00Incompetent and a liar.Incompetent and a liar.gcochranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17752921901568851463noreply@blogger.com