tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post6818963642210425306..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Mongoloid mtDNA in Imperial-era ItalyDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-69032301368420757012013-01-24T03:51:03.017+02:002013-01-24T03:51:03.017+02:00Sad to see so many arrogant queens tarnishing this...Sad to see so many arrogant queens tarnishing this good blog's integrity trying to enforce their egos one over the other. Ashraf gave us a lesson on humility regardless of how incorrect was all that he said. But when it comes to Gioiello... I'm really sorry, because maybe I'm quite misinformed... Is he one of the incarnations of God?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09182524104957639433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-37750643863731563792010-02-09T08:16:48.481+02:002010-02-09T08:16:48.481+02:00Cash Making Opportunities - The Beginning The work...Cash Making Opportunities - The Beginning The working life is already tough enough, but the worries of being out of work was even tougher. The unsecured working environment have prompted me to search the internet for an alternative source of extra income so that I could learn how to Make Money Work for me and be Financially Independent. I listed down a number of Free Internet Business Opportunity Ideas while researching ways how people earn money online while working-from-home.......<br /><br />www.onlineuniversalwork.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-16801755773978453232010-02-04T20:44:49.323+02:002010-02-04T20:44:49.323+02:00I mean, I've gotten over it, the whole R1b thi...I mean, I've gotten over it, the whole R1b thing, for instance . . . the wandering moral state of my great-great- . . . . . . -great grand-father.<br /><br />No need for Y-DNA testing here. That's been taken care of by g^1000 grandpa.<br /><br />And I really wouldn't get my mtDNA tested. Too afraid of the insurance companies.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-91456256243688595762010-02-04T20:34:57.951+02:002010-02-04T20:34:57.951+02:00"Individuals got around."
Ponto, could ..."Individuals got around."<br /><br />Ponto, could you expand on that?Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-35801770654495033922010-02-04T13:44:48.502+02:002010-02-04T13:44:48.502+02:00It balances out the man with the western Eurasian ...It balances out the man with the western Eurasian haplogroup found in China.<br /><br />Individuals got around. I am finding that at 23andMe with my RF cousins. They seem as far as haplogroups go, to span the world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-88325937319859309382010-02-03T20:15:00.225+02:002010-02-03T20:15:00.225+02:00I don't generally ban people or delete posts u...I don't generally ban people or delete posts unless I have to, so feel free to post here, but try to stay close to the topic at hand.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-78590086980026081002010-02-03T17:15:34.226+02:002010-02-03T17:15:34.226+02:00To the blog owner mr Dienekes:very sorry please de...To the blog owner mr Dienekes:very sorry please delete all the off topics and I will make my best to be a silent blog reader.<br /><br />Petru Rossi is a French corsican in fact.<br /><br />I dont claim Semitic superiority because there is no relation between language and accomplishements and dont forget that except Israel(which is somehow European)all the semitic countries belong to the third word,are governed by dictatorships and rely on west for everything.<br />This for the present,as for the past there was many civilisations greater(according to me)than semites=Sumerian,Egyptian.<br /> <br />And is well known that Semitics "made" alphabet from logogrammic hyerogliph. <br /><br />Also I'am not J1 and my Y-DNA most probably originated in levant,south Anatolia or mesopotamia.<br /><br />This is the last post here and again sorry as my usual mistake(the same mistakes that caused my ban from dna-forums)is mixing sentiments with science whereas the memebers here discuss scientifically,it's perhaps the fault of our educational system which mix sentiments with science.ashrafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02590059778590185827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-77190963247559268772010-02-03T14:49:03.037+02:002010-02-03T14:49:03.037+02:00How can a post about Mongoloid mtDNA in imperial-a...How can a post about Mongoloid mtDNA in imperial-age Italy devolve into discussion of Semitic linguistics.<br /><br />Do people have trouble understanding what ON TOPIC means?Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-141609163525838062010-02-03T14:38:45.410+02:002010-02-03T14:38:45.410+02:00Thousands of years before the fossilized Arabic it...Thousands of years before the fossilized Arabic it was Sumerian to be used from thousands of years as unchanged language. Sumerian wasn’t linked with Semite, probably I think with Sino-Tibetan, and Sumerian was the first language written. Your Semite only developed alphabet from Sumerian or Egyptian. Your claims of supremacy are ridiculous: also your J1 probably arose some thousands of kilometers from Arabia.<br />I don’t know Petru Rossi, but from name and surname he seems a Corse, than an Italian, who are using a Corse name and not the French Pierre.Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00999270356447668208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-63043408620666985442010-02-03T11:48:48.171+02:002010-02-03T11:48:48.171+02:00Thank you
I could be induced to errors by some boo...Thank you<br />I could be induced to errors by some books I read even if they seem objective and are written by western scholars(French scholar Petru Rossi for example).<br />And of course you know more about Basque,Latin etc...but for Greek,modern Greek is distinct form ancient Greek.<br /><br />Anyway,retaining a fossilized language is a chance(to read coran and ancient literary texts)and not a handicap,as languages are constantly changing.ashrafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02590059778590185827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-23034042341990837382010-02-03T10:59:21.886+02:002010-02-03T10:59:21.886+02:00The Latin taught in schools and used in temples ti...The Latin taught in schools and used in temples till a few decades ago is perfectly intelligible (at least in written form) with the Latin spoken by Caesar and all those old people. In fact, it's the same artificially fossilized language, even if it has not been spoken in the streets since the very days of the late Roman Empire. This is like Sanskrit and modern/historical Indo-Aryan languages, I presume. <br /><br />I'm pretty sure that in the case of Greek it's a much more direct continuity. Coptic and ancient Egyptian are the very same language. There are heated arguments nowadays because some controversial findings suggest that the Basque spoken in the 3rd century was much like today's Basque and so on. <br /><br />Your claim is a religious/political cliché and I'd suggest you anyhow to make a comparison at least with Chinese and Greek, both literary languages that clearly pre-date the expansion of Arabic and have more ancient literary forms. <br /><br />But anyhow, we are clearly off topic again.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-13866952102320463242010-02-03T10:50:58.872+02:002010-02-03T10:50:58.872+02:00Addenda et erratum:
Shared morphology and grammar ...Addenda et erratum:<br />Shared morphology and grammar between north afro-asiatic and indo-european(please read some books of Hodge,Dolgopolsky,Bomhard and if you know deutsch,you can read the first books working in the subject of afro-asiatic/indo-european genetical relation[both morphologically and lexically]ie the works of Herman Möller and Linus Brünner)<br />For example:ancient Egyptian pt,Akkadian patu,Hebrew pateh,Arabic fatah,Greek petanumi,Latin patere all meaning to open.<br />Yes this could be a borrowing but when such basical words as human bodies in proto north afro-asiatic and proto indo-european organs share also the same roots this can not be due to borrowings.<br />nz/nz=nose<br />nk/unk=neck<br />ayk/ok=eye<br />fud/ped=foot<br />qf/caput(greek kefali)=head<br />Finally please note that the 458 proto ie roots are not present in all ie branches,for example Greek branch has less proto ie roots than....Semitic!!!<br /><br />Dolgopolsky explained that fact very well in his Nostratic dictionnary writing that if afro-asiatic would not be considered nostratic then languages as Greek,Sanskrit,Slavic.. can not be considered indo-european!!! <br /><br />mr Maju<br />As there's not one(spoken)Arabic,there's also not one Turkish,Greek,Castillan,Italian...<br />etc....ashrafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02590059778590185827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-83236680291395570612010-02-03T10:36:39.997+02:002010-02-03T10:36:39.997+02:00mr Terryt.
Semitic and Indo-European have same mor...mr Terryt.<br />Semitic and Indo-European have same morphology and grammar and there are common roots between these 2 language families,I say that convinctingly after reading a dozen of linguistic books(one of them is the more than 3000 pages Dolgopolsky Nostratic dictionnary and the voluminous Bomhard's Nostratic macrofamily...)<br />Those common roots are present in the Akkadian language which is attested as old as 3000 bc,and also in Semitic texts in Egypt as old as 2800 bc far a time before monotheism rose,and of course in such ancient languages as Sanskrit,Avestan,Hittite,Gothic,old Celtic,old Hebrew,Coptic,old Greek etc..<br /><br />But what is more important than common lexical roots is the common morphology and grammar shared by these languages.<br /><br />As there's not one(spoken)Arabic,there's also not one Turkish,Greek,Castillan,Italian...<br /><br />But the Arabic used in schools and medias is the same modern standard Arabic first atetsted in its actual form in the 4 th century but it's to some extent intelligible with proto Arabic Ugaritic which dates to 1600 bc.(Ugaritic is the first attested alphabet in the world as proto sinaitic is an abjad and it's the first which uses the current alphabetical order:alp,bayt,gimal,delta...)<br /><br />The fact that standard modern Arabic is the oldest language still in use(in medias and tought in schools)is a fact.<br /><br />I'm based on my reading of dozens of western scholars<br />(Renan,Wolfenson,Ehret,Rossi..)<br /><br />Also if we have the idea to replace Standard modern Arabic by spoken Arabic we will not be able to understand coran and ancient arabic poetry and besides all spoken language are changing constantly so if we make 2000's spoken Arabic(s) the official language,then we will need to redo the same thing with 2500's spoken Arabic(s) as dialects are dynamic.ashrafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02590059778590185827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-42191413597848909562010-02-03T07:46:20.978+02:002010-02-03T07:46:20.978+02:00Yah, or Coptic, Basque, Greek, Chinese and virtual...Yah, or Coptic, Basque, Greek, Chinese and virtually every other language around, specially those that have not expanded and hence creolized.<br /><br />Plus, there's not one Arabic: that's a religious myth. It has been diverging for more than 1300 years in spite of religious obsession for that language. Nothing remains, all changes. Arabic too, of course and how could it be otherwise if so expansive? <br /><br />That catchphrase of "Arabic is the oldest language still in use" is just one of those repetitive slogans that religious fanatics like to repeat (prayers and "absolute truths" that are not such).Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-46084964757275022412010-02-03T02:27:58.305+02:002010-02-03T02:27:58.305+02:00"the religions we believe have also the same ..."the religions we believe have also the same origin,agriculture,and all prophets originated in the same region" <br /><br />And those reasons account for virtually all the similarities in the languages you mention. They are borrowings. <br /><br />"Arabic,which is the oldest language still in use" <br /><br />I think some Australian Aborigines and New Guineans would argue against that idea, not to mention Khoi-San languages. Perhaps you're just refering to written languages. In which case they have all had contact with each other and the above argument applies. It also eplains your observation, 'The facts that all alphabets we used derive from proto Arabic ugaritic alphabet'.terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-89657317765249433352010-02-02T21:50:52.098+02:002010-02-02T21:50:52.098+02:00Dear Ashraf, I am not contrary to the Nostratic th...Dear Ashraf, I am not contrary to the Nostratic theory or others, being a followers of the monogenetic theory of the language of Alfredo Trombetti. I have often supported also on this forum these theories. I am saying only that your theories are vitiated by religious prejudices. When you’ll use in your comparisons linguistic arguments and not religious prejudices, I’ll be glad to exam seriously your theories.Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00999270356447668208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-70925389638873053932010-02-02T20:28:08.937+02:002010-02-02T20:28:08.937+02:00Mr Gioiello,(western)Cambridge university which is...Mr Gioiello,(western)Cambridge university which is one of the top ten universities in the world has published Nostratic dictionnary.<br />Please look here below<br />http://www.dspace.cam.ac.uk/handle/1810/196512<br />I'm religious but not fundamentalist nor racist or magical.<br />My point is that we can not racially classify Haplotypes,as demonstrated by E1b1b being accepted as caucasoid while it's brother sub-sub-sub clade is considered negroid by geneticists.<br />Arabic,which is the oldest language still in use,has retained case system and dual pronouns of proto lislakh whereas the other languages losted many grammatical features of proto lislakh.<br />Arnaud Fournet which is a western linguist considers indo-european languages as a branch of hamito-semitic and bases his works essentially upon Arabic.<br /><br />http://www.scribd.com/doc/15865145/The-ChamitoSemitic-Morphology-in-IndoEuropean-Languages-Part-1<br /><br />The facts that all alphabets we used derive from proto Arabic ugaritic alphabet,the religions we believe have also the same origin,agriculture,and all prophets originated in the same region,and perhaps langauges spoken by more than 4 billions originated there make me very enthusiastic about that region of the world and Arabic,please dont see this as racism,obsolete or magical as it's difficult to understand for non believers.<br />Also I can't be racist,I have black and mongoloid friends and also black and mongoloid relatives,as skin colour and skull form dont matter anything for us the muslims(or at least it should be so).<br /><br />And generally speaking we are all brothers and sisters whatever our race,language or religion are as it's said in the coran. <br /><br /><br />There is no differences between arabe,non arabs,white and blacks except their piosityashrafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02590059778590185827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-88210452362921753722010-02-02T19:21:11.778+02:002010-02-02T19:21:11.778+02:00mtDNA is descended from M, which is found in Italy...mtDNA is descended from M, which is found in Italy and it is entirely Caucasoid. I wouldnt jump the gun on Mongoloid just because D is common in parts of East Asia. A mongoloid sample in the early days of the Empire may be possible due to the Sino-Roman relations, hence this ambassador or slave(but it is supposedly only half East Asian) idea. I would suspect similar occurrences in Greece, even if the Anatolian Etruscans may of also carried this marker to some degree or East Asian slaves brought back to Greece and Macedon during Alexander and post Alexander times.<br /><br />Also I wouldnt rule out possible contamination from one of the diggers or scientists involved. But they should also have gotten this skeleton's Y-Chromosome.Crimson Guardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08259882884691575025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-39206100272528462002010-02-02T19:19:20.150+02:002010-02-02T19:19:20.150+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Crimson Guardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08259882884691575025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-69174173728240541652010-02-02T19:05:09.115+02:002010-02-02T19:05:09.115+02:00Ashraf: people change languages - while they can&#...Ashraf: people change languages - while they can't change their genes. Languages are not just learned by birth but also because of other social needs. <br /><br />Languages are primarily a social instrument and that means that, if society changes, languages changes. The many languages that are being lost right now because the offspring of the last speakers just don't need them for anything, not even communicating with their parents anymore, should give you a clue. <br /><br />All those language families that are extense, are so because there were political expansions in the past, even if at a semi-tribal level of organization, that promoted them. In some cases these expansions may have been associated with some degree of colonization/migration but it doesn't really needs to be a pervasive one, just a socially dominant one, probably by political means. <br /><br />Furthermore, there has been <a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0008559" rel="nofollow">a recent study</a> that quite clearly finds that the more extended languages/families are also the simplest ones grammatically. Because adult learners tend to ignore a lot of complex grammatical features that are not strictly necessary, causing that simplification or creolization of the languages. <br /><br />This is true for Indoeuropean, for Turkic, for Afroasiatic, for Chinese and for Niger-Congo: all those language families that have expanded have been creolized in a very drastic manner.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-1407012454284524992010-02-02T16:50:29.146+02:002010-02-02T16:50:29.146+02:00I have cuddled another person from this forum, wh...I have cuddled another person from this forum, who had the same analogical way of reasoning. If you go to a Western University to do an exam of glottology you will be expelled by a blow to the bottom. Your words demonstrates only your way of reasoning: racist, obsolete, magic, religious, fundamentalist et cetera et cetera (I have used only Latin words).Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00999270356447668208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-51582676876328548442010-02-02T14:49:58.130+02:002010-02-02T14:49:58.130+02:00In the same time Turkic shares some lexical simila...In the same time Turkic shares some lexical similarities with both Indo-European, Uralic(and also Semitic as in Turkic kes=to cut/Semitic qas=to cut)<br /><br />Perhaps R1's were speaking an agglutinative language close to Turkic and Uralic and when they went south to Arabia(climatic refugium)they underwent some sort of Afro-Asiatic grammatical and lexical sprachbund.<br /><br />This will explain why Kyrghyzs who are World top R1 are Turkic speaking and Hungarians who are very high in R1 are Uralic speaking.<br /><br />If you look to R1a distribution a map on wiki<br /><br />http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a4/GlobalR1a1a.png<br /><br />you will see that R1a is nearly inexistent in such strong ie regions as Iran,Pakistan and North India whereas there is a big spot in the Turkmen region of Iraq around Kerkuek.<br /><br />According to linguist Bomhard 318 out of 458 proto ie roots are present in Afro-Asiatic and many others are also present in Turkic and Uralic.<br />For example:proto ie root *kap=to take is identical to Turkish kap=to take.<br /><br />According to another linguist Turkic is a mix between an altaic substratum and an east iranic superstratum.<br />http://indo-european-migrations.scienceontheweb.net/Iranian_Turkic_Mongolic_correspondences.html<br /><br /><br />Also according to the Arab linguist Bander Alfraikh(being Arab can not be a reason to dont taking him seriously)<br /><br />"Proto-Semitic has one important advantage over Indo-European. In Indo-European one works from the known to get to the unknown root. The h of Eng. horn goes to a k and this gives corn. After many gradings to the vowels and discarding with the suffixes you end up with *ker which is not a lexical unit of speech but only a root. In Semitics, especially Arabic, we start from the root ker which was unknown in Indo-European. Ker is a lexical root in Arabic denoting "repetitiveness and circular objects". It appears in such phrases as ker wa far "charge, retreat (warfare)". From the known we go to the unknown to find that the plosive k was changed to a similar consonant q and n added as a suffix just like Eng. to prduce qern "horn". We can go further into the unknown to find qarin "counterpart". This came from the pre-historic practice of yoking an inexperienced bull to a trained bull to do plowing. We could still go to the very unknown, to the etymon of qiran "marriage, which comes from the fact that marriage is union or 'yoking'". This finally takes us to zouj or zoug "spouse". And zoug becomes, through the Comparative Method, the same as the Indo-European root *yeug. Here we moved from the known, which is the "root", to the unknown, which is the "word".<br /><br />There is also the fact in Comparative Linguistics, as it pertains to Indo-European, to grade the root and make it sometimes zero-grade. Could this be due to an unconscious effort on the part of the corporatist to get to Proto-Semitic which is consonantal (no vowels)? Or is it merely a predetermined effort to make the unknown fit the known? If the former, and if we are interested in language thousands of years before 3000 B.C.E., then Proto-Semitic is a more able candidate to explain the nature of language than Indo-European. It may well lead us to find out some, if not all, of the shortcomings of the Comparative Method. One of these shortcomings, as an example, is the fact that there is no attestation in Indo-European languages on the word sea. If we turn to Semitic languages we find that Eng. mere and Latin mare are descended from Semitic mur "bitter, salty". Mur was used to differentiate sea water from sweat or river water. Sea could have descended from the Semitic root seh(s, heth) signifying motion of water. The heth of seh is hard to pronounce in Germanics and had to go to a vowel, a in this case2."<br /><br />http://arablexis.com/proto_semitic.html<br /><br />http://arablexis.com/imgs/img_17.jpg<br /><br /><br />Some of Turkish/Greek cognates<br />sen/esi/you(sing)<br />siz/esis/you(plural)<br />miz/mas/weashrafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02590059778590185827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-59654492853108600742010-02-02T06:01:24.598+02:002010-02-02T06:01:24.598+02:00Obviously if your million ancestors from 500 years...<i>Obviously if your million ancestors from 500 years ago have all lived in the same small region for a very long time you will have more chance of carrying a haplogroup common in that particular region. But even in each small region we've finished up with combinations of haplogroups originally from widely separated regions.</i><br /><br />Exactly. Haplogroups are meaningful (hence give information about race) at community base, not at individual base.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-41600198217057937562010-02-02T04:08:24.793+02:002010-02-02T04:08:24.793+02:00"If lineages were ubiquitous or randomly dist..."If lineages were ubiquitous or randomly distributed among races, I would agree with you". <br /><br />Obviously if your million ancestors from 500 years ago have all lived in the same small region for a very long time you will have more chance of carrying a haplogroup common in that particular region. But even in each small region we've finished up with combinations of haplogroups originally from widely separated regions. <br /><br />But if a member of a new haplogroup arrives and has children with some local his or her children will be likely in turn to have children with locals. The haplogroup remains in the population but it ceases to be associated with the original phenotype. And it can happen on a larger scale. In which case we get 'racial admixture occurring thousands of years ago followed by a genetic assimilation of the lineage into its new race'. Dienekes has even worked hard to dissect the proportions of the original populations in certain modern regional populations.terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-25362885547452787662010-02-02T01:20:55.560+02:002010-02-02T01:20:55.560+02:00Not a slave, but a master like invading Hun in Hun...Not a slave, but a master like invading Hun in Hungary. Why always assume Mongloid as slave? Most acient time, Mongloids were conquerors.AGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06215105474846252137noreply@blogger.com