tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post5403285810182653390..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Stature evolution in Andaman IslandersDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-48359703299305467462009-10-24T22:47:22.497+03:002009-10-24T22:47:22.497+03:00"With the inclusion of Tai-Kadai into the mix..."With the inclusion of Tai-Kadai into the mix, the situation is a bit messy". <br /><br />Tai-Kadai is also often claimed to be some relation to Austronesian so that may put Ongan even more distant. And then we run into the possible relationship of the Munda languages to Austronesian. It would make sense if Ongan was part of the Munda expansion from SE Asia. <br /><br />You may be interested in my essay on the subject of Polynesian origins. I have grouped the Munda languages into Nahali and you'll see that the diagram fits the connection claimed in the articles you've linked. I postulate an ultimate connection of Austronesian to the Na-Dene languages of North America, which may fit with your ideas: <br /><br />http://humanevolutionontrial.blogspot.com/2009/06/human-evolution-on-trial-polynesian.html<br /><br />"But the overall picture of a large-scale population movement from South China eastward, southward and westward seems to be clear". <br /><br />My contribution, where I suggest much the same: Thai-Kadai and Austroasiatic languages by land and Austronesian languages by sea. Obviously the situation is far more complicated than I have managed to piece together: <br /><br />http://humanevolutionontrial.blogspot.com/2009/06/human-evolution-on-trial-pacific.html<br /><br />The section subtitled "Mixing" is the relevant part.terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-36240247546398751962009-10-24T19:10:32.070+03:002009-10-24T19:10:32.070+03:00Ongan is reconstructed by Blevins as an outgroup t...Ongan is reconstructed by Blevins as an outgroup to Austronesian as a whole including its Taiwanese branches. Andamanese don't show 9 bp deletion lineages, which doesn't mean much as these lineages have a very spotty distribution and haven't been detected in ancient Lapita samples either. With the inclusion of Tai-Kadai into the mix, the situation is a bit messy. But the overall picture of a large-scale population movement from South China eastward, southward and westward seems to be clear.German Dziebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10703679732205862495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-8398580025575539782009-10-24T10:14:43.938+03:002009-10-24T10:14:43.938+03:00"I'm not sure what this new connection do..."I'm not sure what this new connection does to the out-of-Taiwan hypothesis". <br /><br />Probably doesn't change it much. The language(s, I haven't looked at the links yet) may have reached the Andamans after humans first arrived there. Alternatively humans may have reached the islands even more recently than I have proposed. There is ceertainly no evidence that they reached the Andamans before a little more than 10k.terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-10540487387574813502009-10-22T18:50:16.845+03:002009-10-22T18:50:16.845+03:00Just had another thought: the Ongan-Austronesian c...Just had another thought: the Ongan-Austronesian connection reinforces the pattern by which populations with small stature tend not to have their own language. African Pygmies speak the languages of their Niger-Congo and Nilo-Saharan neighbors, Aeta in the Philippines speak an Austronesian language (Botolan). This points to the relative recency of the small-stature populations and to the fact that they didn't adopt a different language but are closely related genetically to populations with normal size who speak the languages of the same language stock. Long mtDNA and Y-DNA lineages of the African Pygmies may therefore be result of a demographic process, and not an automatic indication of age.German Dziebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10703679732205862495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-433527918243745782009-10-22T16:54:38.264+03:002009-10-22T16:54:38.264+03:00This research by Juliette Blevins from Max-Planck ...This research by Juliette Blevins from Max-Planck was published in Oceanic Linguistics. It's available online at<br /><br />email.eva.mpg.de/~blevins/pdf/webpub2007a.pdf <br /><br />Also, a press release by Comrie:<br /><br />www.eva.mpg.de/english/press/PMs.../PM_Andaman_english.pdf<br /><br />I found the evidence solid, especially thanks to the parallelism in grammatical forms (inalienable possession markers in Ongan and their apparent traces in proto-Austronesian in the form of otherwise-meaningless add-ons to the onset of certain words).<br /><br />I'm not sure what this new connection does to the out-of-Taiwan hypothesis but probably it makes an Austronesian homeland in south China more plausible than on an island.German Dziebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10703679732205862495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-22246599005292035512009-10-22T11:45:11.496+03:002009-10-22T11:45:11.496+03:00"the recent linguistic research into the gene..."the recent linguistic research into the genetic connection between Austronesian-speakers and certain Andaman languages illustrates". <br /><br />Have you got a link for that? I was under the impression that the Andaman languages were lumped with the Indo-Pacific languages of New Guinea, although that grouping is rather a catchall collection rather than being an identified family.terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-26900741169539552722009-10-22T03:46:24.020+03:002009-10-22T03:46:24.020+03:00The shrinkage has nothing to do with the race or t...The shrinkage has nothing to do with the race or the humans or even their species, Homo sapiens. It happens quite often when animals are stranded on islands with limited biodiversity and carrying capacity.<br /><br />In Mediterranean Europe there are examples of large animals reducing in stature and mass e.g Elephants, that were stranded on Mediterranean islands due to sea level rise from mainland Europe or Africa. There are almost animals known for small stature and mass that have dramically increases in size under the same conditions e.g Dormouse species.<br /><br />As far as longevity is concerned, it is well known that large animals have slower metabolisms, take longer to reach breeding maturity and live longer. Small animals like Mice have high metabolisms, breed earlier and have very short longevities.<br /><br />The Andaman Islanders while they are isolated and also eschew contact with outsiders, are being looked after by the Indian Government who restrict contact with them thereby reducing disease risks and provide them with outside food sources the islander do not hunt or gather on the islands. It is hardly surprising that outside contact with outside diseases and the artificial feeding of islander may contribute to changes in stature and longevity.<br /><br />The islanders should be left to their own devices.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com