tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post5022461582607250494..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Guess Ötzi's Y-DNA haplogroupDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-55572713960450451002011-09-15T03:37:31.204+03:002011-09-15T03:37:31.204+03:00Since he looks just like me (after a hard night at...Since he looks just like me (after a hard night at the bar) he must be a Scot. (I refrained from voting as I'm not up to scratch in this field.)McGonagallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14887321534801112949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-8903394279113142642011-09-14T12:49:08.799+03:002011-09-14T12:49:08.799+03:00"compare to the Treilles findings"
Yes,..."compare to the Treilles findings"<br /><br />Yes, we know - G2a was European 5,000 years ago and many, many generations before then. It is also quite prevalent in Europe today (~10% in many regions in and around the alps). Which is why many of us here have suggested it as a <i>possible</i> candidate. The "problem" is, if it turns out to be similar to the Treilles result, it really won't answer any question - other than that 5,000 years ago, regional groups where patrilocal and may have wildly differed in their y-DNA.eurologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03440019181278830033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-10908452271331270082011-09-14T11:37:16.815+03:002011-09-14T11:37:16.815+03:00All the links I could find point back to the same ...All the links I could find point back to the same "interview" by Eduard Egarter-Vigl that you can find on youtube - and no mention of the y-DNA results in that one.<br /><br />I think the program was also aired in Germany (by ARD), so one would assume interested people or the media would have taken notice.eurologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03440019181278830033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-31566094849110317422011-09-14T01:16:56.394+03:002011-09-14T01:16:56.394+03:00Assuming the G2a4 holds, compare to the Treilles ...Assuming the G2a4 holds, compare to the Treilles findings.<br /><br />http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/05/y-chromosome-mtdna-and-autosomal-dna.htmlmatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14331613045178862418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-1195300774799550302011-09-14T00:47:08.615+03:002011-09-14T00:47:08.615+03:00The Y DNA results are allegedly back. Seen on Aust...<i>The Y DNA results are allegedly back. Seen on Austrian TV. Not by me. G2a4.</i><br /><br />Again, what is the source? I have a suspicion it is recycled from the comment by 'marcantonio' above.<br /><br />Has anyone actually seen that documentary? Surely there are some Austrians among my readers.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-36661167347169277632011-09-14T00:38:30.504+03:002011-09-14T00:38:30.504+03:00The Y DNA results are allegedly back. Seen on Aus...The Y DNA results are allegedly back. Seen on Austrian TV. Not by me. G2a4.Dora Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15330034043641168434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-41278504742170417412011-09-13T15:09:27.277+03:002011-09-13T15:09:27.277+03:00Of course my knowledge of English has many lacks (...Of course my knowledge of English has many lacks (I know a dozen of languages, and none perfectly), but I used that verb intentionally. I don’t know of course which is the effect on an English speaker, but “clomb” is to “climbed” as “marcantonio” is to “ Marcus Antonius”, like in the past “Jules” was to “Julius”.<br />I said that Julius (Caesar) didn’t sleep only with all the men of Rome, but also with all the women, and I gained my second banishment. But I am something, others less than nothing.Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-85066505097613858062011-09-13T10:26:08.260+03:002011-09-13T10:26:08.260+03:00the monkey clomb down a tree
I like that preterit...<i>the monkey clomb down a tree</i><br /><br />I like that preterite form of <i>to climb.</i> ;) Reminds me of German <i>erklimmen, erklomm, erklommen.</i> When did you learn English - 1,500 years ago? <-- intended as humor, not as insult.<br /><br />Anyway, yes. I also scoured many German and Austrian sources and could not find any reference to G2a4. Of course the fact that Eduard Egarter-Vigl is not a Geneticist may speak <i>for</i> it, in the sense that he could have been naive enough to break the embargo... ;)eurologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03440019181278830033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-40218536163315824462011-09-13T00:29:30.489+03:002011-09-13T00:29:30.489+03:00Sardinia gets also a high percentage of R-U152 amo...Sardinia gets also a high percentage of R-U152 amongst the R haplogroup and also R-M18, one of the most ancient subclade of R1b1/V88-. Don’t you remember when a phantom (who is now again furtive amongst the forums, after having left his paradise under his plants, and he isn’t the Communism) wanted to convince everyone that it was Lebanese? Perhaps he spread the news, because I looked at all the interviews from South Tyrol and nobody spoke of haplogroup G, they said “genes” not “G”.<br /><br />And who spoke of this news? Marcantonio, written in Italian: the monkey clomb down a tree.Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-21865518399459348822011-09-12T23:06:50.976+03:002011-09-12T23:06:50.976+03:00R1a1a - Couldn't resist.R1a1a - Couldn't resist.Pascvakshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08311382875179534062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-74055849073628432922011-09-12T17:18:11.141+03:002011-09-12T17:18:11.141+03:00Imagine if a similar news had been given on 10 Aug...Imagine if a similar news had been given on 10 August? Had anybody spoken about it? I didn’t find anything on that program. Only this, with a little mistake: Wikipaedia says he was 1,65 high.<br /><br />Der Mann aus dem Eis war 1,59 groß und zu Lebzeiten etwa 50 kg schwer. Er war zwischen 46 und 47 Jahre alt, feingliedrig gebaut, hatte Schuhgröße 38,und braune Augen. Er hatte ältere Verletzungen und Krankheitsbilder und starb an einer Verletzung durch eine Pfeilspitze. Soweit die Fakten.<br /><br />But hg. G would be one of the candidate. These two Italian haplotypes are on the FTDNA hg. G project:<br /><br />E11979 Savioli UMBERTO SAVIOLI 1907-1976 Italy G2a4 13 22 15 10 14-14 11 12 11 14 11 30 18 9-9 11 11 23 16 21 30 12-13-15-16 11 12 20-20 15 14 18 18 33-38 11 11 12 8 15-16 8 11 10 8 13 12 12 21-22 18 10 12 12 17 8 13 25 21 15 12 11 14 10 11 11 11 <br />33943 Ricchiazzi Ricchiazzi Italy G2a4 14 22 15-17 10 13-14 11 12 13 13 11 29 18 9-10 11 11 22 16 21 30 14-14-14-16 11 11 20-20 15 14 18 18 33-39 11 10 11 8 16-16 8 13 10 8 12 11 12 19-19 15 10 12 12 16 8 11 22 21 13 14 11 14 10 11 11 11<br />Using the usual method, not mine, we can count 38 mutations, not considering the double value on DYS19:<br />(454x38):134=128<br />128x32=4096YBP <br />I’d say that considering my “mutations around the modal” (it is a little bit believable that the fast mutating markers from DYS607 to CDYb have had only 1 mutation whilst others very slow mutating ones have mutated many times), these two Italian haplotypes have a Common Ancestor much before the life of Ötzi.Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-76077879884397565012011-09-12T00:43:15.088+03:002011-09-12T00:43:15.088+03:00According to an interview with an austrian scienti...According to an interview with an austrian scientist Ötzi is G2a4!<br /><br />Link?<br /><br />The source of this information is an interview with Dr. Eduard Egarter-Vigl, Head of Conservation and Assistant to research projects of the Archaeological Museum in Bozen, given in a documentary on Ötzi broadcast by 3sat on 10th august 2011. See also the following link for more info on this documentary:<br />http://www.3sat.de/page/?source=/dokumentationen/155967/index.html<br />But unless you speak German this link will be of no interest!marcantoniohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04204100129324959360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-81678858137339023742011-09-11T21:39:11.590+03:002011-09-11T21:39:11.590+03:00Based on his morphology (he looks Carpatid) I'...Based on his morphology (he looks Carpatid) I'll go with I.Der Frosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12166603304331471676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-62138216422363448982011-09-11T20:23:03.152+03:002011-09-11T20:23:03.152+03:00According to an interview with an austrian scienti...<i>According to an interview with an austrian scientist Ötzi is G2a4!</i><br /><br />Link?Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-65897059714920633522011-09-11T17:33:38.467+03:002011-09-11T17:33:38.467+03:00The way weird admixture things are happening at th...The way weird admixture things are happening at the moment, I'm gonna say it'll be totally unrecorded group that appears to have diverged from all known Y's 150,000 years ago.<br /><br />Of course, there is virtually no chance of this happening, but I'll look ace if it does. No I'm off to buy a lottery ticket...Belenoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15576215104931708232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-53473063336143271022011-09-10T04:24:41.496+03:002011-09-10T04:24:41.496+03:00As a Zurich born Germanic with mt K1 and y J2, goi...As a Zurich born Germanic with mt K1 and y J2, going with the dark horse J.Aargauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09346817146982191206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-63502534956557245562011-09-09T09:10:29.694+03:002011-09-09T09:10:29.694+03:00The alps aren't "frozen." There are...The alps aren't "frozen." There are plenty of places in the alps that have much milder climate than many parts of north-eastern Europe that saw agriculture over a thousand years before Ötzi.<br /><br />The Ötztal (valley) itself (north of Ötzi's suspected home village)is quite mild: grapes and chestnut trees grow there.<br /><br />Introduction of bronze was a very, very slow process in most of Europe: there was no invasion or anything of that sort that brought bronze with it.eurologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03440019181278830033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-3387708137663313722011-09-09T01:03:20.028+03:002011-09-09T01:03:20.028+03:00According to an interview with an austrian scienti...According to an interview with an austrian scientist Ötzi is G2a4!marcantoniohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04204100129324959360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-54777994939755150342011-09-08T22:36:31.188+03:002011-09-08T22:36:31.188+03:00I'm a Zurich born Germanic J2a4h who is mt K1a...I'm a Zurich born Germanic J2a4h who is mt K1a4a1, so going with the dark horse pick J.Aargauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09346817146982191206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-6835999148043022142011-09-08T20:18:38.668+03:002011-09-08T20:18:38.668+03:00I would guess that the gent is of the I haplogroup...I would <i>guess</i> that the gent is of the I haplogroup, which I consider to be the indigenous Ice Age European Yhap. Frozen alps would have been inhospitable or even inaccessible to Neolithic farmers (E, J). Also, 5,500 ybp possibly just predates the spread of Bronze Age culture from the SE (possibly associated with R); in any case, BA groups presumably wouldnt have hung around in frozen alps.apostateimpressionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08992369104954433139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-61956096663295011302011-09-08T18:03:00.355+03:002011-09-08T18:03:00.355+03:00@AnnieMouse,
Interesting Map of K, I just checked...@AnnieMouse,<br /><br />Interesting Map of K, I just checked 23andMe and I have Relatives who are mtDNA K as follows:<br /><br />1. K1a - 6<br />2. K1a1 - 3<br />3. K1a1b1a - 5<br />4. K1a1b2a - 1<br />5. K1b1 - 1<br />6. K1b1a - 1<br />7. K1b1a1 - 1<br />8. K1c2 - 4<br />9. K2a - 2<br />10. K2a2a - 2<br />11. K2a6 - 2<br />12. K2b - 2<br />13. K2b1 - 2<br />14. K2b1a - 1pconroyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10312469574812832771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-38763785295548706722011-09-08T16:53:59.028+03:002011-09-08T16:53:59.028+03:00Well his mitochondrial haplogroup is closest to No...Well his mitochondrial haplogroup is closest to North America( http://anthropologynet.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/otzi-phylogenetic-mtdna-haplogroup-k-comparison.jpg ), but I suspect that is White folk of Utah North America. Next best candidate (red)is Spain. <br /><br />I am going R1b because it is highest in North Italy, darned high in Austria, uber in Spain. And the patterns of R1b look to me like it has been in the area for a very long time.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11000684388615334278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-61100920208216400802011-09-08T12:45:04.500+03:002011-09-08T12:45:04.500+03:00In the wishful thinking category, since there is a...In the wishful thinking category, since there is almost an even bet it is L, T, G, or something along those lines, I simply hope it is R1b so perhaps we find out more on that. The other ones are just so much more difficult to interpret, and give us less information on Europe as a whole (for now).eurologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03440019181278830033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-25834174354729941332011-09-08T07:00:11.897+03:002011-09-08T07:00:11.897+03:00I agree that R1b is the safest bet. Of course, wh...I agree that R1b is the safest bet. Of course, whatever group/subgroup it is, it may have an important impact on dating.<br /><br />During that time, north of the alps settlements started to move from the low-lying Loess regions to less fertile grounds and higher elevations (e.g., Cham and Horgen cultures). There seems to be some similarity with North Tyrol, the higher elevations of which then also were used for seasonal grazing, so I wouldn't be surprised if a ~20% or so Westeuropean component would be found.eurologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03440019181278830033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-42415751007425111922011-09-08T05:47:18.312+03:002011-09-08T05:47:18.312+03:00Not sure about long arms..but hands are huge...com...Not sure about long arms..but hands are huge...comparatively.ivanohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15963930571487034239noreply@blogger.com