tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post356345762740234885..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: ALDER signal of admixture in Ashkenazi JewsDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-8102821679527405952012-11-26T20:41:13.893+02:002012-11-26T20:41:13.893+02:00Historically, this coincides with one of the first...Historically, this coincides with one of the first major pogroms in Europe which led to a major population bottleneck, more or less at the same time as the earlier Crusdades. Jews were expelled from Britain around this time (and remained absent for centuries thereafter) and were massacred many other places. Despite arguably being the most severe of the Rabbinic era Judaism massacres other than the Holocaust, it is not very well known comparatively, perhaps because it was too late for inclusion in the Hebrew Bible and pre-dated the invention of the printing press.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-53443555900630661422012-11-25T22:56:49.628+02:002012-11-25T22:56:49.628+02:00It would be interesting to do this analysis for th...It would be interesting to do this analysis for the Balkans, starting from the premise that the Iron Age population was Sardinian-like, and then calculating the additional admixture from West Asia, North Europe, etc.aspromavrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05416539355662136692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-44527398900774380612012-11-22T20:09:13.027+02:002012-11-22T20:09:13.027+02:00"the evidence for the former element seems pr..."the evidence for the former element seems pretty clear on the basis of Y-chromosomes where Jews possess a relatively high frequency of Y-haplogroup J1 (and a few others) that are quite rare in non-Jewish north/east Europeans."<br /><br />Remember your Dendrogram?<br /><br />http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TQdrmjCmuoI/AAAAAAAADC0/7B7yQsOWROk/s1600/dendrogram_average.png<br /><br />West Asian is closer to North European. Red Sea is on a separate branch. This also shows in ydna clusters of West Asian Ydna lines, Q/R/G, and common Red Sea ydna clusters J&E.<br /> <br />Red Sea Jewish ancestral ydna lines, more likely to be found around "Saudis" region;<br /> <br />"Approximately 30% to 40% of Jewish men are in the paternal line known as haplogroup J[Note 1] and its sub-haplogroups. This Haplogroup is particularly present in the Middle East, Southern Europe, and Northern Africa.[14] Furthermore, 15 to 30% are in haplogroup E1b1b[Note 2] (or E-M35) and its sub-haplogroups."<br /><br />West Asian ydna lines more likely to be found around "Mordovians" region;<br /><br /> Q-245, [10-20] R1b-R1a-R2 lines, including v-88, z2105- L277 L584 banches, R1a-93, and approximately 10 ydna G lines,some uncommon. ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00239954589937094679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-35220581236826193442012-11-22T17:36:23.392+02:002012-11-22T17:36:23.392+02:002. Spanish really should be in there as a referenc...<i>2. Spanish really should be in there as a reference population. </i><br /><br />THey are, Spaniards from Behar et al. (2010) but they don't produce that signal of admixture.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-32322433219334812582012-11-22T16:41:58.852+02:002012-11-22T16:41:58.852+02:00Sorry to double comment. A couple more thoughts:
...Sorry to double comment. A couple more thoughts: <br /><br />1. The reference pops that get big 1-ref %'s (French, Romanians, and Tuscans) get younger 2-ref date estimates. Compared to Lithuanians e.g. Not sure what to make of that.<br /><br />2. Spanish really should be in there as a reference population. <br /><br />3. To get a handle on these outputs, you should also run similar analysis using Ashkenazi Jewish samples as a reference pop. That goes for Europeans and Arabs (are they partly descended from Jewish populations), etc. <br /><br />4. The Levite R1a seems to be non-Slavic and instead have an Asian origin. So far no one seems to be commenting on this. <br /><br />5. I will throw something out there. What if the North European part of Ashkenazi Jewish populations came from absorbing from an exotic bottlenecked population, maybe say a remnant of "Northern Caucasoids" (as opposed to extant Northern Europeans) from outside of Europe.<br /><br />This might only be a small % (say, 10%) of Ashkenazi Jewish genetics, but might account for the extreme bottleneck effect. It might also be a source of the Levite R1a.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-48911702339295145402012-11-22T16:31:22.726+02:002012-11-22T16:31:22.726+02:00Thanks for the clear explanation of the positive f...Thanks for the clear explanation of the positive f3!Charles Nydorfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16291667302870991631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-90558573099599042082012-11-22T14:05:06.521+02:002012-11-22T14:05:06.521+02:00To put this in perspective, similar runs using Sep...To put this in perspective, similar runs using Sephardic Jewish and Moroccan Jewish as test populations would be good. <br /><br />Then ditto using Middle Eastern Jewish as the test population.<br /><br />Questions that arise:<br /><br />1) Is this pattern of mixture specific to only some Jewish populations? <br /><br />2) Can the North European part of this mixture be isolated characterized (a la ANI-ASI)? Is it garden variety European mixture (Slavic or German or etc.), or something else? <br /><br />3) Did the bottleneck detected in Ashkenazi Jewish populations affect one or both sources of this mixture (i.e., the Middle Eastern part or the North European part)? <br /><br />4) Did the source populations mix and then experience a bottleneck, or did one or both source populations experience bottlenecks and then later mix?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com