tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post3477133387086155481..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Is Jebel Irhoud the Father of mankind?Dienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-87878078802857557932014-02-12T03:28:37.694+02:002014-02-12T03:28:37.694+02:00This is not even science fiction. It is pure ficti...This is not even science fiction. It is pure fiction. There is no such thing as "adam and eve" even genetically speaking. There are too many inconvenient anomalies for that religious dogma to become the mainstream thinking, no matter how much you religious fanatics continue to promote it. The chinese example is perfect illustration of stupidity of that "adam/eve" delusion. And that of Africa being a cradle of humanity. One little thing no one seems to be considering is that by all accounts and rules the genetics have themselves accepted for the genomes, (mutatins to occure every 7k-10k years) there should NOT be any genes present before the haplotype I. If the mutations are so dramatic that say H turns to I at some point, then why the A is still present in Bantus and Pygmis? 200 000 years are sufficiently long for these two groups to mutate just as their brethren elsewhere, who seems from the genome chart, have been busy turning from blacks into whites, then Asians, then blacks again and so on. Yet Bantus and Pygmis never did. Yeah... THAT's Science!<br /><br />Making hypothesis is one thing. A good one. Making theories and then working of them as if they were the ultimate truth is religious nonsense, not a science. "god" doesn't exit, "adam and eve" don't exist. The genetic diversity points at a number of independently developed human species (yes, species. we are part of animal sphere). Who then mixed together just as every other animal species of similar family do in the nature.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-18619897902890591802014-02-12T03:27:52.216+02:002014-02-12T03:27:52.216+02:00This is not even science fiction. It is pure ficti...This is not even science fiction. It is pure fiction. There is no such thing as "adam and eve" even genetically speaking. There are too many inconvenient anomalies for that religious dogma to become the mainstream thinking, no matter how much you religious fanatics continue to promote it. The chinese example is perfect illustration of stupidity of that "adam/eve" delusion. And that of Africa being a cradle of humanity. One little thing no one seems to be considering is that by all accounts and rules the genetics have themselves accepted for the genomes, (mutatins to occure every 7k-10k years) there should NOT be any genes present before the haplotype I. If the mutations are so dramatic that say H turns to I at some point, then why the A is still present in Bantus and Pygmis? 200 000 years are sufficiently long for these two groups to mutate just as their brethren elsewhere, who seems from the genome chart, have been busy turning from blacks into whites, then Asians, then blacks again and so on. Yet Bantus and Pygmis never did. Yeah... THAT's Science!<br /><br />Making hypothesis is one thing. A good one. Making theories and then working of them as if they were the ultimate truth is religious nonsense, not a science. "god" doesn't exit, "adam and eve" don't exist. The genetic diversity points at a number of independently developed human species (yes, species. we are part of animal sphere). Who then mixed together just as every other animal species of similar family do in the nature.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-84993202861873071222011-05-24T03:41:48.464+03:002011-05-24T03:41:48.464+03:00Duely noted. Please excuse my inconvinience.
Now...Duely noted. Please excuse my inconvinience. <br /><br />Now what about the "arctic problem" with the "OoA-theory"?batmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-3216000507176558472011-05-22T01:06:25.542+03:002011-05-22T01:06:25.542+03:00triple posting is forbidden, any further triple po...triple posting is forbidden, any further triple posts will be deleted.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-5564160224865168032011-05-21T19:59:49.116+03:002011-05-21T19:59:49.116+03:00In 1997 a highly arctic population was found in Ma...In 1997 a highly arctic population was found in Mamontaya Kurya, at the arctic coast of NW Russia, that was more than 40.000 years old. Bones of mammoth were processed and left here, no less than 34.000 BP. The tools found reminds of both Midddle and Upper paleolithic.<br /><br />As the discovery hit the news (Nature 2001) a number of other findings from NW Eurasia revealed that there where a number of settlements that could be dated between 40 and 20 kYr BP. The last Solutreans seem to disapear during the Younger Dryas.<br /><br />During the Alleröd-populations they were present in Rhenland and the Danish islands before they disapears for less than 400 years - before they reappear in the Rhone river estuary. Where they found their final refugee we do not know - but genetic bottle-necks tells us they were a very limited group - as the Eurasian icetime came to its end. <br /><br />The first people to re-populate the Baltic Sea and the northern tears came to the area of North Cape already 12.400 years ago (Sarnes 2). Their technology is strikingly close to the tools used in Mamontaya Kurja and Byzova, 27.000 years before. The arctically well-adapted people managed to populate the pre-Boreal landscapes of northern Europe and Asia - with an re-start around 12.500 years ago. <br /><br />The well-adapted Paleolithics who survived ice-time in the north were not many. But they were obviously very well adapted and developed, as they were able to spread, establish and reproduce - incredibly fast - as soon as ice-age Europe turned into the Boreal climate of today.<br /><br />The rapid spread of AMH througout northern Eurasia could never have been achived by Homo sapiens without the physiological adaptions that goes with pale skin and a 7-fold increase in the production of vitamin D - as soon as it is exposed to sunshine. Without this and other physiological adaptions it is impossible to survive the sunless days of the arctic winter.<br /><br />The people that populated N-Europe was highly specialized also in the organization of their life, to establish a technology and an industry that could feed them - as well as an economy that made social and cultural relations work - over great distances, througout the vast arctic oceans, seas and stepp-lands. <br /><br />Compared to any African of 35-40.000 years ago the difference is 'vast'. One just wonders how anyone can motivate how an indigenous populations from a Sub-Saharan climate - in trandscending into AMH - could take off and move straigth through the high-arctic landscape of the Eurasian tundra - to hunt seals and seabirds at the Barents Sea...?! <br /><br />The Mesolithic tools of Northern Scandianvia is divided east and west - in "Ahrensburgian" ('Fosna') and "Swidrian" ('Komsa'). Since Fenno-Scandia doesn't show any later migrations we can still find this East-West divide in the German vs. the Uralian cultures, one east and the other west of the Baltic and the Botnic Oceans - congruent to the differences upheld during the Neolithic and the metal ages. Consequently there should be enough genetic material to determine the genetic fabric nessecary to survive an arctic refugia for 30.000 years - fit and ready to populate the entire arctic circle at 12.500 BP...<br /><br />http://repositriodeficheiros.yolasite.com/resources/Texto%2031.pdfbatmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-53221522193647126382011-05-21T19:27:49.528+03:002011-05-21T19:27:49.528+03:00@ Dienekes:
"MIS 3 50-45 ka: Second demograp...@ Dienekes:<br /><br />"MIS 3 50-45 ka: Second demographic expansion of modern humans in Sahara, followed by collapse as Sahara becomes dry; development of Aurignacian after 45 ka: Colonization of Eurasia and Sub-Saharan Africa by modern humans sensu stricto: anatomically and behaviorally modern people with advanced tools. Most human Y-chromosomes (belonging to C, DE, and F) coalesce to this period."<br /><br />This time-line rests entierly on the old interpretations of ice-time, which states that we had a long 'glacial period' in Europe, called Wurm/Weichsel, dated to (ca.) 115.000-12.500 yrs BP. The last third of that period is supposed to have been the coldest, initiated by the MIS 4-stadial, starting ca. 50.000 years ago. By 40.000+ years BP the climate grew milder, initiating the inter-glacial warm MIS 3. <br /><br />Corresponding to this archaologists have dug out a number of sites from Paleolithic settlements in the northern tiers of Eurasia. Moreover, these settlements are dominated by tools and technology that corresponds to the Mesolithic technologies. Consequently anthropologers of various sorts have concluded that these are the oldest traces of modern humans in Eurasia. Building on theese findings the theories about the origin and migrations of the AMH was adapted to correspond to these dates. For some reason the archaeologists adapted - somewhat uncrtically - to the same model, as they started to differ between "Middle-Weichslian" and "Upper-Weichslian" technology. Today these theoretic terms seems to be bougth uncrtically, as "facts", by geneticians as well as the rest of us.<br /><br />A closer look at the tools of NW Europe shows that the named "MIS-transition" is both supported and contradicted. One clearly contradiction is found in the Rhen valley and the Rhen river - where very old populations have been traced. During the milder periods MIS 5 and MIS 3 the settlements are found up in the valley, during the colder MIS 4 and MIS 2, the populations are found in the lower Rheinland, where the river met the ocean.<br /><br />Most of the eastern Eurasian populations disappeared during the LGM-periods (23 and 19 kYB). During the Older and Younger Dryas the western groups are also strongly reduced. The estuaries of Lower Rheinland, Holland or France - close to the benefits of the Mexican Gulf stream - may be one of the few places that any Paleolithic Eurasians would survive.<br /><br />http://quaternary-science.publiss.net/articles/809?locale=enbatmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-80477589006380807692011-05-21T16:33:07.319+03:002011-05-21T16:33:07.319+03:00Dienekes:
"I did try a small experiment
htt...Dienekes:<br /><br />"I did try a small experiment<br /><br />http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/03/neandertal-genes-in-east-africa.html<br /><br />which showed that Maasai from East Africa shared a "Neandertal" region with East Asians but not Caucasoids. This is inconsistent with Neandertal admixture, as there were no Neandertals in East Africa, as well as with the "Neandertal" alleles being the result of Caucasoid back-migration, as that wouldn't brought back the "Neandertal" genes found in East" <br /><br />---<br /><br />There maybe a connection between neanders and arians, indo-arians and afro-asiatics - indicating a later migrational movement into E Africa - along the shores of of the Arabian Pennisula. The genetic fabric of the islands of Socotra, where the shells producing purple-dye exist, may indicate a seafaring-culture that originated around the indo-aryans east of the Persian Bay...batmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-74220738902476765672011-05-21T10:49:47.711+03:002011-05-21T10:49:47.711+03:00So in your opinion do you think the presence of de...<i>So in your opinion do you think the presence of derived Neandertal genes in Eurasians are not so much 'Neandertal' as "archaic African</i><br /><br />Rather, "lack of archaic African".<br />In reality it could be both.<br /><br /><i>were to include more Africans, namely from the North</i><br /><br />I have campaigned for someone to repeat the analysis with east Africans that were neglected in the original paper. North Africans are probably trickier because even though Berbers have doubtlessly absorbed some earlier population elements, they may be, to a great extent derived from outside Africa or at least outside NW Africa.<br /><br />I did try a small experiment<br /><br />http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/03/neandertal-genes-in-east-africa.html<br /><br />which showed that Maasai from East Africa shared a "Neandertal" region with East Asians but not Caucasoids. This is inconsistent with Neandertal admixture, as there were no Neandertals in East Africa, as well as with the "Neandertal" alleles being the result of Caucasoid back-migration, as that wouldn't brought back the "Neandertal" genes found in East Asians.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-49821122314312032682011-05-21T03:40:13.267+03:002011-05-21T03:40:13.267+03:00So in your opinion do you think the presence of de...So in your opinion do you think the presence of derived Neandertal genes in Eurasians are not so much 'Neandertal' as "archaic African"? That is, if the clever ancient genomic analyses by Green et al. (2010) and Reich et al. (2010) were to include more Africans, namely from the North, they would show these 'Neandertal derived' genes that link Eurasians with Neandertals?Zachary Cofranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10845549257961708506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-50235433426530116852011-05-20T20:09:35.097+03:002011-05-20T20:09:35.097+03:00It's hard to argue that the modern attributes ...It's hard to argue that the modern attributes of a modern chin have been overestimated. And where exactly do you mention Zhirendong?<br /><br />Also, with this chronology, modern humans vegetated in Africa for 100,000 years (!) sporting modern morphology but no specialized modern behavior, and then exploded to conquer the world within a couple of thousand of years armed with new UP technologies for which there are no North or West African antecedents. It's just science fiction.<br /><br />Finally, there are no language isolates or small families in North Africa. We would expect to find them in places where populations go back to Mid-Pleistocene with its small scale demography. What happened with those? Disappeared for convenience sake?<br /><br />On a positive note, West Africa does have some interesting language isolates (Laal, etc.) and small families that could indicate the survivals of Late Pleistocene linguistic variation in Africa.German Dziebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10703679732205862495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-77874032776306708842011-05-20T19:42:37.523+03:002011-05-20T19:42:37.523+03:00I mention it for the sake of completeness. It coul...I mention it for the sake of completeness. It could very well have been part of the same pulse that gaves us Qafzeh/Shkul, or its modern attributes may have been overestimated.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-90000073375814457302011-05-20T19:18:32.504+03:002011-05-20T19:18:32.504+03:00How does the Zhirendong specimen at 100,000 in Sou...How does the Zhirendong specimen at 100,000 in South China fit in here?<br /><br />Its date predates your stage "after 45 ka: Colonization of Eurasia and Sub-Saharan Africa by modern humans sensu stricto: anatomically and behaviorally modern people with advanced tools" by more than 50K years, no?German Dziebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10703679732205862495noreply@blogger.com