tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post2009296342720036274..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: SMBE 2012 abstracts (Part II)Dienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-43846817763371408392012-06-29T07:07:42.377+03:002012-06-29T07:07:42.377+03:00Climate was the reason: http://m.yahoo.com/w/legob...Climate was the reason: http://m.yahoo.com/w/legobpengine/news/huge-ancient-civilization-collapse-explained-123449804.html?orig_host_hdr=news.yahoo.com&.intl=US&.lang=en-US<br />The other theory is a drunken story:-D.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-85439831722575115472012-06-26T18:16:27.165+03:002012-06-26T18:16:27.165+03:00I combed through the SMBE 2012 abstracts, too, and...I combed through the SMBE 2012 abstracts, too, and found a couple more interesting research reports.<br />See here http://anthropogenesis.kinshipstudies.org/2012/06/howler-monkeys-neandertals-pygmies-khoisans-and-more-society-for-molecular-biology-and-evolution-2012/German Dziebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10703679732205862495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-18570793451582726412012-06-26T17:26:32.554+03:002012-06-26T17:26:32.554+03:00Researchers led by Mait Metspalu of Evolutionary B...Researchers led by Mait Metspalu of Evolutionary Biology Group of Estonia studied 600,000 Single Nucleotide Polymorphism (SNP) markers among 30 ethnic groups in India. The human genomes consists of chromosomes, represented by the double helix and specific locations on the chromosome can be identified using markers with the common ones being micro-satellite markers and SNP markers. Among the two, SNP markers are popular for gene fine mapping. The study takes data from existing genetic studies and combines it with new data from North Indian and South Indian population to trace the external influences from Europe.<br /><br />One of the ancestral components—the ANI—is common not just in South Asia, but also in West Asia and Caucasus while the ASI is limited to South Asia. While this may seem to clearly demarcate the natives and the foreign migrants, it does not. Except for some Astroasiatic tribes and two small Dravidian tribes in Tamil Nadu and Kerala, all other South Indians have more than 40% of the ANI component. This means that everyone except these few groups are not purely native.<br /><br />The important question then is this: When did the ANI mix with the ASI?. If that period is between 1900 BCE and 1500 BCE, then it would confirm the many versions of Aryan theory in existence right now. When these researchers modeled the data, they could not find any evidence of a dramatic Central Asian migration for this period. <br /><br />So they went back and till about 12500 Years Before Present (YBP) they could not find any evidence. Thus the mixing of the ANI and ASI did not happen 140 generations before as was believed, but probably more than 500 generations back (Each generation is 25 year, Making it at least 12,000years old). <br /><br />The paper explicitly mentions Max Muller’s theory and says that it is hard to find evidence for such a migration following the collapse of the Harappan civilization.bmdriverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02175936825472291559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-5049033146829930562012-06-26T01:51:21.157+03:002012-06-26T01:51:21.157+03:00Regarding the mitochondrial subclades of U8 and th...Regarding the mitochondrial subclades of U8 and their entry into Europe, the authors state: A maximum-parsimonious phylogenetic tree was constructed using all published sequences available so far. Coalescence ages of specific clades were estimated using ρ statistic, maximum likelihood and Bayesian methods considering a mutation rate for the complete molecule corrected for purifying selection." Is there any way of getting a look at this tree, and specifically at the coalescence ages? As a K1a10, I am curious to know when our sister-clade K1a9 parted company from us. The former is rooted quite far back in Ireland, the latter appears in Ashkenazic Jews. There's a story I'd like to unravel!Michael Bobletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12414452880272579408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-19006881224490233042012-06-25T20:45:53.412+03:002012-06-25T20:45:53.412+03:00Is this a legitimate journal, and are these guys r...<i>Is this a legitimate journal, and are these guys real scientists? I am dubious.</i><br /><br />Your're right. Klyosev's methods and conclusions are so questionable that they render his work basically unscientific.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10387130442339819378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-27046090414614797032012-06-25T14:34:24.007+03:002012-06-25T14:34:24.007+03:00Would you care to comment on:
Anatole A. Klyosov*...Would you care to comment on:<br /><br />Anatole A. Klyosov*, Igor L. Rozhanskii, Advances in Anthropology<br />2012. Vol.2, No.2, 80-86.<br /><br />Based on Y haplogroups, they seem to be suggesting that the Eurasian/African split occurred very much early than normally believed (say, 160,000 years ago) and that it might have occurred in Eurasia rather than Africa.<br /><br />Is this a legitimate journal, and are these guys real scientists? I am dubious.sykes.1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10954672321945289871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-85672829763208684922012-06-25T14:22:48.033+03:002012-06-25T14:22:48.033+03:00To estimate the time of migration from sub-Saharan...<i>To estimate the time of migration from sub-Saharan populations into North Africa, we implement a maximum likelihood dating method based on the frequency and length distribution of migrant tracts, which has suggested a migration of western African origin into Morocco ~1,200 years ago and a migration of individuals with Nilotic ancestry into Egypt ~ 750 years ago.</i><br /><br />This admixture date of Egypt is testable on modern-day Egyptians. ~750 years ago means it is well after the Islamization of Egypt, and due to the nature of Islamic society and slavery it is expected to have affected only the Muslims of Egypt. So if it is found that Christian Egyptians (=Copts) don't carry that admixture, this will confirm the findings of this paper.<br /><br /><i>Using an approximate Bayesian framework, we find that present patterns of genetic diversity in Central Asia may be best explained by a demographic history which combines long-term presence of some ethnic groups (Indo-Iranians) with a more recent admixed origin of other groups (Turco-Mongols).</i><br /><br />By "Indo-Iranians" and "Turco-Mongols" are they referring to the modern-day Indo-Iranians and Turco-Mongols (not a valid term if they excluded Mongols, as Turkic speakers are called Turkic, not Turco-Mongol, and Mongolic speakers are called Mongol or Mongolic, thus the term Turco-Mongol can be used only when Turkic speakers and Mongolic speakers are grouped together) of Central Asia, or to the Indo-Iranians and Turco-Mongols prior to their contact?Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-33474333520543976322012-06-25T12:53:00.991+03:002012-06-25T12:53:00.991+03:00We confirmed that haplogroup K, dating to ~32 tho...<i>We confirmed that haplogroup K, dating to ~32 thousand years (ka) ago, descended from the U8 clade, which coalesces ~48 ka ago. The latter is close to the timing of the first arrival of modern humans in Europe and U8 could be one of the few surviving mtDNA lineages brought by the first settlers from the Near East.</i> <br /><br />This is a very good study, demonstrating yet again that we need whole genome (mt-DNA) or high-resolution (y-DNA) analysis to make any kind of headway in understanding origins and migrations, given the old ages of many of these haplogroups. However - why mention Near East in this context? It makes it sound like the majority of people entering Europe came from the Near East.<br /><br /><i>ANI and ASI have been estimated to have diverged from a common ancestor as much as 60,000 years ago</i><br /><br />I have mentioned multiple times that after Toba (~70,000 ya), for most of the time, much of the subcontinent was so dry (no Monsoon) as to completely separate NW Indian/ Pakistani inhabitants from S/ SE Indians (hence the close relation between people in the NW and Caucasians/ Europeans, today). Diffusion should have resumed after the Younger Dryas and again in the Holocene Optimum.eurologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03440019181278830033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-4920621077361611372012-06-25T12:10:05.850+03:002012-06-25T12:10:05.850+03:00"The past phylogenetic research has translate..."The past phylogenetic research has translated the issue of wheat domestication into somewhat simplistic mono- /polyphyletic dilemma, where the monophyletic origin of a crop signalizes rapid and geographically localized domestication, while the polyphyletic evidence suggests independent, geographically separated domestication events. Interestingly, the genome-wide and haplotypic data analyzed in several studies did not yield consistent results and the proposed scenarios are usually in conflict with the archaeological evidence of lengthy domestication. Here I suggest that the main cause of the above mentioned inconsistencies might lie in the inadequacy of the divergent, tree-like evolutional model. The inconsistent phylogenetic results and implicit archaeological evidence indicate a reticulate (rather than divergent) origin of domesticated emmer". <br /><br />And I very much suspect that the same could be said of human development. It seems most are committed to seeing a single origin for all humans whereas the evidence could easily be interpreted as indicating a reticulate origin for humans. Perhaps this desire to see human origins as originating in a single region at a specific time is a survival of creationist beliefs. <br /><br />"The archaeological record shows a richer picture of trade among the islands, cultural change and diversity than what colonial documents depict, from the early settlements around 8000 B.P. to the chiefdoms and towns at the time of contact". <br /><br />That recent, to reach what look like comparatively easy islands to reach. Yet people still insist that 50,000 years before then these people's ancestors had moved by boat along the far more dangerous South Eurasian coastline.terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-40265130654254883712012-06-25T06:41:28.768+03:002012-06-25T06:41:28.768+03:00There is a clear archaeologic record and explainat...There is a clear archaeologic record and explaination also for the start of the 4 to1.2 kya(if correct) major ANI ASI admixture and i'm not talking about the Indo-aryan theory or rather story.Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-26773785141066872812012-06-24T23:40:25.437+03:002012-06-24T23:40:25.437+03:00""We characterize broad patterns of rece...""We characterize broad patterns of recent gene flow between Europe and Africa, with a gradient of recent African ancestry that is highest in southwestern Europe and decreases in northern latitudes. The elevated shared African ancestry in SW Europe (up to 20% of the individuals’ genomes) can be traced to populations in the North African Maghreb. Our results, based on both allele-frequencies and shared haplotypes, demonstrate that recent migrations from North Africa substantially contribute to the higher genetic diversity in southwestern Europe.""<br /><br />Does the "based on both allele-frequencies and shared haplotypes" affirmation mean that this is the same as talking about autosomal contribution?Raúlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06542491052434603383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-12615721249917511592012-06-24T19:48:46.063+03:002012-06-24T19:48:46.063+03:00<< We characterize broad patterns of recent ...<< We characterize broad patterns of recent gene flow between Europe and Africa, with a gradient of recent African ancestry that is highest in southwestern Europe and decreases in northern latitudes. The elevated shared African ancestry in SW Europe (up to 20% of the individuals’ genomes) can be traced to populations in the North African Maghreb. Our results, based on both allele-frequencies and shared haplotypes, demonstrate that recent migrations from North Africa substantially contribute to the higher genetic diversity in southwestern Europe. >><br /><br />20% 'African' admixture in southern Spain seems rather high?<br /><br />Presumably most of that would be caucasian?apostateimpressionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08992369104954433139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-75161899166313845472012-06-24T18:21:56.409+03:002012-06-24T18:21:56.409+03:00How come you didn't highlight this?
Because i...<i>How come you didn't highlight this?</i><br /><br />Because it's based on ROLLOFF, and until the creators of ROLLOFF release the software (1+ year overdue) and explain why HAPMIX built by many of the same people produces 2x older dates, I don't take its dates seriously.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-86804327325768571082012-06-24T17:38:57.277+03:002012-06-24T17:38:57.277+03:00"Here we analyze data from about 60 South Asi..."Here we analyze data from about 60 South Asian groups to estimate that major ANI-ASI mixture occurred 1,200-4,000 years ago."<br /><br />How come you didn't highlight this?<br /><br />"The major part of the lineages dating to the Neolithic period seems to have an European origin with exception of haplogroup K1a4 and K1a3."<br /><br />So much of the neolithic spread in European was done by meso Europeans, maybe.<br /><br />"a migration of western African origin into Morocco ~1,200 years ago and a migration of individuals with Nilotic ancestry into Egypt ~ 750 years ago."<br /><br />Funny. That DNA tribes said that some of the southern royalty in ancient Egypt were south African like. I think I'm calling shenanigans.princenuadhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02165977957244158593noreply@blogger.com