tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post8545842837783362773..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: 2008 in review: Ethnicity Strikes BackDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger85125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-79022763703930292152009-01-11T17:30:00.000+02:002009-01-11T17:30:00.000+02:00Kepler asks, "What is a Spaniard"? "What is a Russ...Kepler asks, "What is a Spaniard"? "What is a Russian" ? Well Dumbo,most Spaniards don't hail from Russia and most Russians don't hail from Spain.<BR/><BR/>I mean Dumbo in a kindly joking way-like when you talk and joke with your friends.miz RAND BLOWTONhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13306476695686165653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-21077429447080052762009-01-11T17:25:00.000+02:002009-01-11T17:25:00.000+02:00Many authentic ethnicities may have died out .Are...Many authentic ethnicities may have died out .Are there any "real Italians" left? I heard most Italians are half Slavik nowadays-I guess the Mafia is all Blonde,Blue-Eyes,and no muscles ?miz RAND BLOWTONhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13306476695686165653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-36963791459326494572009-01-11T17:19:00.000+02:002009-01-11T17:19:00.000+02:00To the 10th comment by Kepler.You mention many peo...To the 10th comment by Kepler.<BR/>You mention many people's ethnicities-Well,how about Stalin of Georgia,Dictator Of Russia? What's his Ethnicity? Is he Russian? He looks like Sadam Hussain.miz RAND BLOWTONhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13306476695686165653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-305068673430060742009-01-11T17:13:00.000+02:002009-01-11T17:13:00.000+02:00Duh! I already knew that Ethnicity was a real tang...Duh! I already knew that Ethnicity was a real tangible biological entity and so is a mixed-ethnicity, but it helps if there is proof that it even exists,so skeptics have something to believe in too.miz RAND BLOWTONhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13306476695686165653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-11773092264204580022009-01-05T05:09:00.000+02:002009-01-05T05:09:00.000+02:00Sorry for the belated response. Holidays, etc. Y...Sorry for the belated response. Holidays, etc. You know how it goes...<BR/><BR/>"You need to give me some credit and stop arguing with me in a manner that is representative of a high school debate."<BR/><BR/>Look, I have been reading what you have written, and have taken the time to consider your POV. YOU are the one who has resorted to name calling and jumping to conclusions. Relax. We may or may not agree, but I am still willing to listen to your perspective.<BR/><BR/>"People argue in a dichotomous fashion where either you are for something or diametrically opposed to it. If one is not for multiculturalism, they must be for genocide and Hitler. If one loves Europeans, then they must hate non-Europeans. If I give an example of European accomplishments by referencing Murray's book, then I view his book as the final word, bible if you will, and all others as inferior, ready for genocide."<BR/><BR/>Look, I can only understand your perspective based upon what you write here. I am not assuming that you think one way or another, and am just responding to what you have posted--oftentimes different perspectives can get a little muddled in forums like this...it happens. I am not assuming that since you are proud of your European heritage you are automatically calling for genocide. I have NO IDEA why you keep saying that, in fact. You're the one who has repeatedly mentioned that, not me.<BR/><BR/>"I've read his book and found more than a few faults with it as well. Though I never put it out as "the final word"."<BR/><BR/>Then we both agree that the book has its share of faults. <BR/><BR/>"More of a starting point for you and to show that Europeans have accomplished a tremendous amount."<BR/><BR/>Granted. OF COURSE Europeans have accomplished a great many things. My field of study is anthropology, which means that I have interests that are pretty broad---and European history (going back pretty deep) is part of that.<BR/><BR/>Where you and I seem to differ is here: I do not ascribe to Murray's need to RANK different histories or groups of people in such a simplistic way. I really don't get the point of that. Sure, Europeans have amazing histories, which are full of all kinds of achievements. So do many other groups of people.<BR/><BR/>"With that said and with the acknowledgment of said and unsaid faults with the book, where are the Asian, South Asian, African, Arab, and Mestizo versions of "Human Accomplishments"? Certainly there are learned people in the above racial/ethnic groups that want to put their best forward as well, no?"<BR/><BR/>There are deep histories in each of the regions that you mention. A person could take a lifetime to study the histories (or accomplishments) of any of them, IMO. Some of those histories are textual, some are not. Some are architectural, some are embedded in oral histories. <BR/><BR/>"Regardless of the faults of the book, it does not alter my basic premise as stated a few comments above. I think it was you who took us on this inferior/superior tangent."<BR/><BR/>Hmmm. I disagree--it seems to me that you are the one who has an interest in ranking groups (as Murray does). Here is the first post that I responded to that you wrote:<BR/><BR/><B>Society, politics, and anthropology all are trickled down from genes. It is the capacity of the genes that bring about the above. Otherwise, if this is not true, kindly point me to the African version of Gallileo, the Asian Newton, the Arabic/Muslim version of the Enlightenment, the Mestizo origins of logic and philosophy. You cannot because they are not of European genetic make up and as much as they ape European accomplishments and behaviour, if left on their own, would quickly revert to what their genes tell them. Capiche?</B><BR/><BR/>Maybe I read you wrong there, but you seem to be inferring the idea that Europeans are superior, and that everyone else are somehow inferior, or just "aping" what Europeans have accomplished. Let me know if I have misinterpreted what you are saying.Ryan Andersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18008425994341539639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-33962554575792621582009-01-04T16:00:00.000+02:002009-01-04T16:00:00.000+02:00I have to agree with Cyd the Kid, we were all Afri...I have to agree with Cyd the Kid, we were all African at one point, that does not mean we're all African now genetically. So, Asiatics mixing with Europeans doesn't mean there was really admixture as we think of today.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-42243378278836703942009-01-02T19:36:00.000+02:002009-01-02T19:36:00.000+02:00Well maybe I should just conveniently "ignore" thi...Well maybe I should just conveniently "ignore" things I have trouble addressing like you do?Cydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02334032603842676523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-28508709029624689692009-01-02T19:34:00.000+02:002009-01-02T19:34:00.000+02:00"blah blah blah" pretty much sums up your entire c..."blah blah blah" pretty much sums up your entire contribution to this argument.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-89979879688224394902009-01-02T19:32:00.000+02:002009-01-02T19:32:00.000+02:00...continued due to my pressing submit instead of ......continued due to my pressing submit instead of preview...<BR/><BR/>Your treatment of Christianity is disingenuous at best. Attempting to paint the picture that it is "universal" and a Christian is a Christian is a Christian. Nonsense! You specifically want someone "Orthodox". What the fuck for? How about a Christian Nigerian. We're all the same anyway.<BR/><BR/><I>And "Europeans mixing with Asiatics" did happen ages ago.<BR/><BR/>In fact Europeans are the result of several waves of migration from Asia, each of which mixed with the earlier inhabitants.</I><BR/><BR/>Context my friend. Context. We all were space dust at one time as well prior to all being African. Though I am not inclined to have much affinity for either.Cydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02334032603842676523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-44768425684204761752009-01-02T19:23:00.000+02:002009-01-02T19:23:00.000+02:00All you can do is give a nonsensical example which...<I>All you can do is give a nonsensical example which only serves to demonstrate you don't know what "gene expression" is.</I><BR/><BR/>I see. Well then, I'm sure you can point me to a copy of your dissertation that has explained the genome, all the genes and what they express, how they do it, how they affected by certain pressure, whether any take over during period of stress, blah blah blah. <BR/><BR/>I'm no geneticist, though I do know many things and only recently, the anti-racists were beating the no-such-thing-as race- drums. Now, that drum beats much more softly. <BR/><BR/>The only thing truly nonsensical is your illogic when it comes to issues such as these.Cydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02334032603842676523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-78412884818619036652009-01-02T19:11:00.000+02:002009-01-02T19:11:00.000+02:00For the non-white idiot,Further information regard...For the non-white idiot,<BR/><BR/>Further information regarding the Spanish Inquisition. Some of which is new even to me...<BR/><BR/><I>The Spanish Inquisition, which began in 1481, cannot be understood without recognizing the significance of this epic 771-year struggle between Christians and Muslims over the Spanish peninsula. What took the great Berber Gen. Tariq ibn Zayid only eight years to conquer on behalf of the Umayyad Caliphate required almost 100 times as long to regain, and neither King Ferdinand II of Aragon nor his wife, Queen Isabella of Castile, was inclined to risk any possibility of having to repeat the grand endeavor. <B>Isabella, in particular, was concerned about reports of conversos, purported Christians who had pretended to convert from Judaism but were still practicing their former religion. This was troubling, as it was reasonable to assume that those who were lying about their religious conversion were also lying about their loyalty to the united crowns</B> and it was widely feared that Jews were again encouraging Muslim leaders to attempt the recapture of al-Andalus, as they had its original capture eight centuries before. <B>("It remains a fact that the Jews, either directly or through their coreligionists in Africa, encouraged the Mohammedans to conquer Spain." The Jewish Encyclopedia (1906). Vol XI, 485.)</B></I><BR/><BR/>As well...<BR/><BR/><I>It is one of the great ironies of history that three times more people died in the forgotten event that almost surely inspired the Spanish Inquisition than died in the famous flames of the inquisition itself. Despite its reputation as one of the most vicious and lethal institutions in human history, the Spanish Inquisition was one of the most humane and decent of its time, and one could even argue the most reasonable, considering the circumstances.<BR/><BR/> * The Spanish Inquisition did not attempt to convert anyone to Christianity.<BR/> * The inquisitors were not slobbering psychotics as portrayed by Dostoevsky and Edgar Allan Poe.<BR/> * Torture was rarely used, and only when there was substantial evidence to indicate that the accused was lying.<BR/> * The main reason there was a Spanish Inquisition in the first place is that, unlike in other European kingdoms, Ferdinand and Isabella encouraged Jews and Muslims to convert to Christianity instead of simply expelling them all.<BR/><BR/>In light of its nightmarish reputation, it will surely surprise those who believe that millions of people died in the Spanish Inquisition to learn that throughout the 16th and 17th centuries, less than three people per year were sentenced to death by the Inquisition throughout the Spanish Empire, which ranged from Spain to Sicily and Peru. Secular historians given access to the Vatican's archives in 1998 discovered that of the 44,674 individuals tried between 1540 and 1700, only 804 were recorded as being relictus culiae saeculari. The 763-page report indicates that only 1 percent of the 125,000 trials recorded over the entire inquisition ultimately resulted in execution by the secular authority, which means that throughout its infamous 345-year history, the dread Spanish Inquisition was less than one-fourteenth as deadly on an annual basis as children's bicycles.</I><BR/><BR/>Amazing what one finds when actually looking for truth instead of buying the propaganda that becomes truth over time. Shameful.<BR/><BR/>http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=56045Cydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02334032603842676523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-73222745668534757112009-01-02T19:10:00.000+02:002009-01-02T19:10:00.000+02:00I have this strong inkling your are being willfull...<I>I have this strong inkling your are being willfully obtuse in this matter. You've heard of Lewontin's Fallacy, no? Well, we are on the verge of coining a new term, that being Dienekes' Fallacy.</I><BR/><BR/>A fallacy occurs when either the premises are wrong, or the syllogism is wrong. You have demonstrated neither.<BR/><BR/>All you can do is give a nonsensical example which only serves to demonstrate you don't know what "gene expression" is.<BR/><BR/><I>There has to be a reason why certain peoples developed one culture while another, very similar genetically by our current standards of evaluation, developed something quite different. Try as you might, Europeans cannot be easily mixed with Asiatics. If that were the case, it would have happened ages ago.</I><BR/><BR/>Nonsense. Christianity, for example, an almost universal characteristic of European culture developed in Asia, and exists today in very diverse populations both in Europe and outside of it.<BR/><BR/>And "Europeans mixing with Asiatics" did happen ages ago. <BR/><BR/>In fact Europeans are the result of several waves of migration from Asia, each of which mixed with the earlier inhabitants.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-72106551939499032452009-01-02T19:04:00.000+02:002009-01-02T19:04:00.000+02:00Patrick,I don't doubt that Greeks and central/sout...Patrick,<BR/><BR/><I>I don't doubt that Greeks and central/southern Italians are more closely related to some Middle Eastern people than to some Northern European people, as much as that may offend insecure and racist people such as "cyd the kid" or "just say negro."</I><BR/><BR/>It has nothing to do with "insecurity" or "racism", Patrick. It has to do with reality and context. You've made the point in your following paragraph as to a potential reason for cohesiveness amongst Europeans which is absent with the Asiatics and Semites. In time, I'm certain, there will be even clearer reasoning. <BR/><BR/>As to your racism charge, what exactly is that? It couldn't possibly be a case where a certain person is voted into the presidency by >95% of people of his own race? Or it couldn't be cases where individuals of a certain race that do not know each other swarm Europeans that need a good ass kicking? Is that what you mean by racism?Cydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02334032603842676523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-52235779674257174262009-01-02T18:55:00.000+02:002009-01-02T18:55:00.000+02:00Ok, so:1. People should associate, form alliances,...<I>Ok, so:<BR/><BR/>1. People should associate, form alliances, or marry people who are genetically close to them<BR/>2. Italians are closer to Turks genetically than to Irishmen<BR/><BR/>1,2=>Italians should associate, form alliances, or marry Turks rathern than Irishmen</I><BR/><BR/>I have this strong inkling your are being willfully obtuse in this matter. You've heard of Lewontin's Fallacy, no? Well, we are on the verge of coining a new term, that being Dienekes' Fallacy. <BR/><BR/>Let us use identical twins, as an example. Are identical twins genetically similar, Dienekes? I'd say identical. Are identical twins the same person with the same interests, likes and dislikes, aptitudes etc? Nearly every time, no, they are their own individual selves. Why is that? It is the expression of their genes that causes a divergence in their personality traits and interests in the context of being brought up in the same household. Same goes for Europeans and Asiatics. Italians may be more similar, genetically, to Turks though it is their gene expression that has caused a different culture and thinking. Patrick, in the comment above yours, makes the same case when he writes...<BR/><BR/><I>On the other hand, European culture is very different from that of the Middle East, including Turkey. (Europe is historically Christian, with ideals inherited from Greece and Rome. The Middle East is Islamic, and heavily influenced by Arab and Persian culture.) The differences in culture and lifestyle between Northern and Southern Europe pale in comparison.</I><BR/><BR/>There has to be a reason why certain peoples developed one culture while another, very similar genetically by our current standards of evaluation, developed something quite different. Try as you might, Europeans cannot be easily mixed with Asiatics. If that were the case, it would have happened ages ago.Cydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02334032603842676523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-5245657288593178922009-01-02T13:48:00.000+02:002009-01-02T13:48:00.000+02:00>> Apparently you think that I ascribe to th...<I>>> Apparently you think that I ascribe to the notion that people should associate, form alliances, or marry people who are genetically close to them.<BR/><BR/>No. Just the opposite, in fact. I WANT you to have those notions, but alas, you do not.</I><BR/><BR/>Ok, so:<BR/><BR/>1. People should associate, form alliances, or marry people who are genetically close to them<BR/>2. Italians are closer to Turks genetically than to Irishmen<BR/><BR/>1,2=>Italians should associate, form alliances, or marry Turks rathern than Irishmen<BR/><BR/>The conclusion of the syllogism contradicts your notion that "Italians should not associate with Turks" (3)<BR/><BR/>The contradiction can be resolved either by withdrawing your notion (3), or by accepting my notion that genetic similarity is _not_ the basis of alliances.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-60008998271828351742009-01-02T11:07:00.000+02:002009-01-02T11:07:00.000+02:00Culture is one element people (especially those wh...Culture is one element people (especially those who focus on "ethnic genetic interest") are overlooking here.<BR/>I don't doubt that Greeks and central/southern Italians are more closely related to some Middle Eastern people than to some Northern European people, as much as that may offend insecure and racist people such as "cyd the kid" or "just say negro."<BR/>On the other hand, European culture is very different from that of the Middle East, including Turkey. (Europe is historically Christian, with ideals inherited from Greece and Rome. The Middle East is Islamic, and heavily influenced by Arab and Persian culture.) The differences in culture and lifestyle between Northern and Southern Europe pale in comparison.Patrick Pastorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09099899266500215447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-63675030314899441392009-01-02T10:14:00.000+02:002009-01-02T10:14:00.000+02:00I agree in many things with Dienekes: his prudence...I agree in many things with Dienekes: his prudence, his “Realpolitik”, his true interest in scientific method, but I am very surprised by his defense of religion (orthodox or other doesn’t matter). Also religion has an origin, a “Genealogie” would say Nietzsche: it is born in the time and will die with it. What a pity that “Cyd the Kid” doesn’t know Italian, since in my poem his ideas, unpresentable, I think have reached their metaphysical absoluteness.<BR/>“God” was created as the god of that city, of that people: YHWH is the god of the Jews, who protects that people against all the others. God was created racist by a racist people. Without the faith in his power they have never challenged the Roman power, by whom they were annihilated (the Jews of to-day are another thing, but if they would accept this everything would crash for them, the fetishistic link with Abraham which guarantees the fetishistic link with YHWH: prehistory of the mind in a people for other reasons so evolved).<BR/>Dear Dienekes, your Christianity was created by Saint Paul and is based on the faith that Christ has risen again and this guarantees the resurrection of anyone trusts in him. The real Jesus wasn’t Christian, was a pious Jew, with four brothers and at least two sisters. Probably was a son of a Roman soldier named “Panthera” of Phoenician extraction (see: The Jesus’ Dynasty of Tabor). After his dead the brother James became the guide of his followers at Jerusalem. Probably they existed for many centuries and influenced the same Mohammad and his monotheistic religion. The western Christianity were another thing with is diuturnal quarrels on his nature, a mix of polytheism, paganism, magic, superstition. What are we waiting to throw all this in the rubbish skip! Or, with the Nietzsche’s refinement,: “Who would believe that someone yet believes to all this?”Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00999270356447668208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-78021644875983430782009-01-02T06:35:00.000+02:002009-01-02T06:35:00.000+02:00My friend, who royally pisses me off, I have to po...My friend, who royally pisses me off, I have to point out that it is you who is seriously confused. <BR/><BR/>Feelings are irrelevant to genetic distance, though they are extremely relevant to European survival. Hence my strong feelings when you promote such lunacy as this...<I>It's preferrable to have a realistic policy towards other ethnic groups based on particular circumstances and common interests, rather than on a sort of sentimental idealism about Europeans vs. non-Europeans.</I><BR/><BR/>Europeans have a commonality, whether you care to admit it or not. Whether the "genetic distance" says so or not. We are forever linked by our region, our histories, our people, our thinking, our beliefs and so on. We are not linked to Turks or Jews or any other Asiatic or Semitic people. Some foods, drinks, and even music has transcended the cultures due to a variety of reasons, similar to Asians and Africans taking up Christianity, though we are not them and they are not us.<BR/><BR/><I>Apparently you think that I ascribe to the notion that people should associate, form alliances, or marry people who are genetically close to them.</I><BR/><BR/>No. Just the opposite, in fact. I WANT you to have those notions, but alas, you do not.<BR/><BR/><I>I would prefer, for example, for a Greek to marry an orthodox Palestinian, or an orthodox Lapp, provided that they raised their children in the Greek tradition, rather for for him to marry another Greek, if they raised their children as atheist anarchists.</I><BR/><BR/>There is some validity to this, though only up to a certain point. As I brought up the issue about jus sanguinis citizenship, Greece would not be Greece with an entire populace that is 1/32 Greek and 31/32 Nigerian or Turk or whatever. You can attempt to teach others about Greek Orthodoxy and traditions and many will be able to mimic it to varying degrees though one NEEDS to BE Greek in order to understand what exactly the traditions mean that are being passed on from generation to generation. Same goes for Italians, English, Irish, Russians, Norwegians, Swedes, Germans et al. Each group KNOWS the meaning of their traditions and they know WHY it means so much to them that they pass it on. Just what the fuck would a Turk or Nigerian know about Greece that they could continue the meaning of being Greek, generations down the line?<BR/><BR/><I>Is the recognition that Italians are genetically closer to Turks than to Northern Europeans insulting or detrimental to Northern Europeans?</I><BR/><BR/>I think the resentment is within you and not them, per se, and I'm not sure why you dislike them. The insulting issue, in my opinion, lies with the groups you are tying to Turks. It also creates division, distancing, and potential for chaos, as if Europeans need any impetus for chaos. If we accept your ideology and begin to formally associate Greece, Italy, and whoever else with Turkey, then the seed for dissolution is in place and the rest of Europe will follow. Without Europe, Europeans will be but a footnote in history. Europe is more than a landmass, it is a historical homeland to a race of people. A people that I do not want to see go extinct no matter how many Africans, Turks, Semites can mimic our customs and traditions.Cydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02334032603842676523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-90848421772627711782009-01-02T02:18:00.000+02:002009-01-02T02:18:00.000+02:001) You apparently feel a closer kinship with Turks...<I>1) You apparently feel a closer kinship with Turks and Asiatics than you do with Northern Europeans. Something I have learned from your writings and elsewhere.</I><BR/><BR/>"Feelings" are irrelevant to the issue of genetic distance. <BR/><BR/><I>2) These Turks are "closer", genetically, to Southern Europeans and you feel that is a more "realistic" coupling versus the "artificial and archaic" European and non-European grouping.</I><BR/><BR/>You are seriously confused. Apparently you think that I ascribe to the notion that people should associate, form alliances, or marry people who are <I>genetically</I> close to them. <BR/><BR/>That is not the case: I would prefer, for example, for a Greek to marry an orthodox Palestinian, or an orthodox Lapp, provided that they raised their children in the Greek tradition, rather for for him to marry another Greek, if they raised their children as atheist anarchists.<BR/><BR/><I>3) There wouldn't be this genetic similarity if it weren't for those vile and aggressive demons spreading their demon seeds about Europe. As far as we know, the best way to spread genes is through fucking, forced or otherwise. There wouldn't have been such fucking if they kept to their demon lands.</I><BR/><BR/>I think you've lost it now.<BR/><BR/><I>4) Their centuries long aggression is "rewarded", by you, with a Southern Euro - Turkic camaraderie.</I><BR/><BR/>Once again, it is no "rewarding" to state that genetically Italians are closer to Turks than they are to Finns.<BR/><BR/><I>Simply recognizing genetic similarity is not a problem. You enjoy poking the eye of Northern Europeans with this "recognition" of yours.</I><BR/><BR/>What do "Northern Europeans" have to do with anything? Is the recognition that Italians are genetically closer to Turks than to Northern Europeans insulting or detrimental to Northern Europeans?Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-5367788090647087302009-01-02T01:54:00.000+02:002009-01-02T01:54:00.000+02:00What does the recognition that Italians are geneti...<I>What does the recognition that Italians are genetically closer to Turks than to Irishmen, Russians, or Norwegians have anything to do with "rewarding" Turks?</I><BR/><BR/><BR/>1) You apparently feel a closer kinship with Turks and Asiatics than you do with Northern Europeans. Something I have learned from your writings and elsewhere.<BR/><BR/>2) These Turks are "closer", genetically, to Southern Europeans and you feel that is a more "realistic" coupling versus the "artificial and archaic" European and non-European grouping.<BR/><BR/>3) There wouldn't be this genetic similarity if it weren't for those vile and aggressive demons spreading their demon seeds about Europe. As far as we know, the best way to spread genes is through fucking, forced or otherwise. There wouldn't have been such fucking if they kept to their demon lands. <BR/><BR/>4) Their centuries long aggression is "rewarded", by you, with a Southern Euro - Turkic camaraderie.<BR/><BR/>See now?<BR/><BR/>Simply recognizing genetic similarity is not a problem. You enjoy poking the eye of Northern Europeans with this "recognition" of yours. Snuggling up to 80 million rapists, liars, cheats, and murderers to piss off the Northerners may be your cup of tea, but it is not mine nor most Europeans.Cydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02334032603842676523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-71745226566266996222009-01-01T22:51:00.000+02:002009-01-01T22:51:00.000+02:00E.g., from the Italian point of view, Cypriots and...<I>E.g., from the Italian point of view, Cypriots and Turks are much closer than Russians, Norwegians, or Irishmen are, even though the latter set are Europeans geographically and the former are not.<BR/><BR/>---------<BR/><BR/>It's preferrable to have a realistic policy towards other ethnic groups based on particular circumstances and common interests, rather than on a sort of sentimental idealism about Europeans vs. non-Europeans.</I><BR/><BR/>Really now! We are to reward the Turks for their centuries long aggression into Europe and her peoples, which includes brutality and I'm sure a hefty amount of rape, pillage, and forced intermixing. Kinda like giving a burglar your house since he managed to come in multiple times, steal stuff, and get away with it. Uh-huh. Turks are Asiatics, NOT European.<BR/><BR/>As to the second part, let's see if we can bring it down into the real world. You have 4 children, 3 that are blonde and one brunette. It is acceptable in your mind for the brunette to associate with the brunette family next door and not yours due to her having "particular circumstances and common interests" with them? Despite being part of YOUR family? <BR/><BR/>As for the non-white idiot who is lacking humility in view of his pummeling, he needs to tell all his ethnic background before he feels the need to go on and on about the "evil Europeans".Cydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02334032603842676523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-28432366021645594392009-01-01T18:23:00.000+02:002009-01-01T18:23:00.000+02:00that it is more distant, in the Near Eastern direc...<I>that it is more distant, in the Near Eastern direction, from the European genetic centroid</I><BR/><BR/>The "European genetic centroid" may interest people descended from all over Europe. For members of particular ethnic groups, the point of interest is the centroid of their <I>own</I> ethnic group, and the relationship of other ethnic groups to it.<BR/><BR/>E.g., from the Italian point of view, Cypriots and Turks are much closer than Russians, Norwegians, or Irishmen are, even though the latter set are Europeans geographically and the former are not.<BR/><BR/>Thus, from <I>your</I> favorite vantage point of "ethnic genetic interests", a marriage between an Italian and a Turk is less "damaging" to Italian genetic interests than a marriage between an Italian and a Finn is.<BR/><BR/><I>If cultural and historical and civilizational aspects of identity are included, indigenous Europeans, particularly those from the Balkans (!), do not in any way positively identify with Turks.</I><BR/><BR/>People from the Balkans do not positively identify with most other people from the Balkans either! Being on one side of an imaginary line separating continents is no guarantee of amity. Indeed, most ethnic conflict that European nations have faced is with their neighbors (European or not). <BR/><BR/>It's preferrable to have a realistic policy towards other ethnic groups based on particular circumstances and common interests, rather than on a sort of sentimental idealism about Europeans vs. non-Europeans.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-46966107870858937912009-01-01T14:24:00.000+02:002009-01-01T14:24:00.000+02:00Picture of Kittles on page 8 of that PDF.That way ...Picture of Kittles on page 8 of that PDF.<BR/><BR/><I>That way someone will "take care of you"...</I><BR/><BR/>I see. Your method of "debate." Cyd is correct to ditch this thread at this point. Everytime Dienekes posts on the biological realities of race and ethinicty, hyterical leftists pop out of the woodwork.<BR/><BR/>When they lose the argument their true colors come out.<BR/><BR/>And they then have the nerve to critize European history as violent.<BR/><BR/>Pathetic.just say negrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04169793901181122731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-22057756593977618352009-01-01T14:18:00.001+02:002009-01-01T14:18:00.001+02:00As I wrote in a previous post, Mr Dyer (Ysearch: Z...<I>As I wrote in a previous post, Mr Dyer (Ysearch: ZSXFH) matches closely a Mr Foster (X6ZDC) from England and, being R1b1b2g1 more Germanic than Celt, I think that probably his paternal origin is from a Saxon than from a Cornish.</I><BR/><BR/>Now I see you have enough sense to preface "origin" with "paternal." However, Dyer's Y chromosome progenitor is one of thousands (or...millions of documented..?)of his ancestors. It demonstrates NOTHING about whether, in toto, he's of "Cornish" or "Saxon" ancestry.<BR/><BR/>You'd equally "demonstrate" that <A HREF="http://diversity.bsd.uchicago.edu/documents/DiversityBrochure08.pdf" REL="nofollow">Rick Kittles</A> is "Germanic" based on his NRY data.<BR/><BR/>However, admixture testing gave 88% sub-Saharan African measure for Kittles. <BR/><BR/>Likewise, Dyer - whoever that is - may well be overwhelmingly of "Cornish" origins, regardless of your "demonstration" of his "paternal origins."<BR/><BR/>And if this Dyer got so upset over your "exposure" of his "non-Cornishness" due to NRY,then's he's more ignorant about genetics than even you.just say negrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04169793901181122731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-29863133680365087032009-01-01T14:02:00.000+02:002009-01-01T14:02:00.000+02:00Since the last post went through…..In the Novembre...Since the last post went through…..<BR/><BR/>In the Novembre study, the sample size for Turks, was n = 4 (the same for Cypriots). That’s hardly representative for any population, much less one that is likely as genetically heterogeneous as Turks (based upon history and phenotype, for example).<BR/><BR/>Even if we assume that this (spatially separated) Turkish sample is representative, putting aside that it is more distant, in the Near Eastern direction, from the European genetic centroid than any other population pictured, Fst measures depicted in 2-D analyses do not constitute the full picture of genetic variation. Turks - a heterogeneous population that undoubtedly contains some genetically European minority elements - may represent (along with Ashkenazim) the "most European" boundary of any putative non-European Caucasoid cluster. But if the Turkish genepool contains significant levels of ancestral elements that are essentially alien to European ethnic groups (at the same high levels), then slightly closer Fst differences do not always correlate with racial affinities. For example, Central Asian/modern Middle Eastern (not Neolithic)/South Asian ancestral components at significant levels that would be found in indigenous Europeans at low levels. <BR/><BR/>And again, Turks and Cypriots, along with the Ashkenazim, would be expected to be genetically closer to Europeans than most other non-European Caucasoid groups, and thus, cannot reasonably be expected to represent the totality of any non-European Caucasoid genetic clustering.<BR/><BR/>This all presumes this is all in a purely genetic frame of view. If cultural and historical and civilizational aspects of identity are included, indigenous Europeans, particularly those from the Balkans (!), do not in any way positively identify with Turks. This non-genetic component of course does not alter the genetics, already discussed. But superimposed on top of, and synergistic with, the biological differences, these other considerations emphasize the integrated “alieness” of Turks to Europe. Hence, the extremely bitter controversies about Turkish admission to the EU, with the “man in the street” joining traditionalist politicians and nationalist activists in opposing said admission, with a vehemence that would not exist for admission of any European people. Yes, there was some opposition – mainly for economic reasons – for the admission of some Eastern European nations. But the opposition to Turkey is of a different plane – it is total, “existential” – when even some in the mainstream say that Turkish admission will “destroy” Europe, there is something going on far deeper than concern about economics. It is civilizational, historical, cultural, and biological. And with respect to the latter, further genetic studies, on sample sizes greater than 4, can help illuminate this.just say negrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04169793901181122731noreply@blogger.com