tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post834072687071253768..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Complete genome of the Tyrolean IcemanDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-73631432399405274092012-04-10T02:22:02.168+03:002012-04-10T02:22:02.168+03:00again, some of women shown in your link are not ei...again, some of women shown in your link are not either completely sardinians, there is an half albanian(with veil) lol, a half sicilian (caruso), a half belgian body builder, a half croatian and a half bulgarian (kostova), moreover as you can see phenotypes are quite different from the aliens found on google images<br />http://www.facebook.com/pages/Le-ragazze-Sarde-sono-le-pi%C3%B9-belle/385161865615?sk=photosnanukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05850630012868313209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-74332387520486211632012-04-10T02:13:00.444+03:002012-04-10T02:13:00.444+03:00@ DagoRed
those sardinians girls shown in your l...@ DagoRed <br /><br />those sardinians girls shown in your link have a great variety of phenotypes and they are quite different from odd aliens seen google images:<br /><br />http://www.facebook.com/pages/Le-ragazze-Sarde-sono-le-pi%C3%B9-belle/385161865615?sk=photosnanukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05850630012868313209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-33240146846280213292012-03-09T14:15:19.196+02:002012-03-09T14:15:19.196+02:00The company leading the project of mapping Ogliast...The company leading the project of mapping Ogliastra's DNA is in bankruptcy . It will now be sold at auction. Probably the project ends hereAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-86911735057774817912012-03-07T13:16:05.546+02:002012-03-07T13:16:05.546+02:00Thank you mr Razib for your highbrow blog as well ...Thank you mr Razib for your highbrow blog as well as all folk here that seem very conoisseur, I think that this whole story confirms again that:<br />1/It's the westasian-northeuropean bicomponent that traces the legacy of the folks that brought Indo-European languages to Europe<br /><br />2/The Sardinians and Ötzi's drag toward neareasterners is due to the lack in both of the westasian derived (most likely that differentiation occured northward beyond the caucasus) northeuropean component as well as the presence in both of the mediterranean component<br />So we could argue that mediterranean component in Libyans is a legacy of "iberianoic" speaking mesolitihic Ibero-Maurussians whilst the westasian+southwestasian component in Libyans are legacy of the Afrasanic speakers (a branch of the kartvelian-indoeuropean-afrasan macrophylum) be them imazighen or arabs<br /><br />Do you agree on this matter dear friends; I am awaiting a backing on these 2 matters before communicating them to my people<br /><br />Thankscrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01232905237272530506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-50384172722632677712012-03-05T17:06:56.784+02:002012-03-05T17:06:56.784+02:00DagoRed,
The previous study claimed that the popul...DagoRed,<br /><i>The previous study claimed that the population of Ogliastra descends directly from the nuragic period and is the population remained more isolated and homogeneous, but not that is the oldest</i><br /><br />True, but I hope that the glass might end up "half full". As evidence of isolation, they demonstrated that more than half of the study subjects were born in one of the 4 villages. But the same figure also shows that about 20% of the study objects were born in Sardinia outside of Ogliastra, if I recall it right (I think that the distribution has been published in their 2006 publication). So chances are that despite the relative homogeneity of their population, the project will still be the first to give us a snapshot of genome diversity <i>across</i> the whole island?MOCKBAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05150628026789690963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-75144864663911952782012-03-05T16:51:11.781+02:002012-03-05T16:51:11.781+02:00It’s no real issue for me, but I always got the im...It’s no real issue for me, but I always got the impression that all these Ötzis reconstructions look a bit to Central European,like the lack of body hair.Katharóshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16649693310029639154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-46142280823848010172012-03-05T14:21:11.520+02:002012-03-05T14:21:11.520+02:00I Think Murino has a typical sardinian face. Howev...I Think Murino has a typical sardinian face. However you can check here the faces of Sardinian women.<br /><br />http://it-it.facebook.com/pages/Le-ragazze-Sarde-sono-le-pi%C3%B9-belle/385161865615<br /><br />MOCKBA, Ogliastra in in the SW of Sardinia, while Oetzi is more related with SE Corsicans end North Sardinians (Gallura).<br />The previous study claimed that the population of Ogliastra descends directly from the nuragic period and is the population remained more isolated and homogeneous, but not that is the oldest.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-78512580489081672982012-03-04T02:23:19.120+02:002012-03-04T02:23:19.120+02:00Hello friends of the India continent. Even though ...Hello friends of the India continent. Even though Spain is so far in the West, we are closer than you think. Do you want to know why? A Spanish friend. oestrymnio.blogspot.comFrancisco Javier Torres Gobernahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13825658602480183267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-30317890051620138372012-03-03T02:27:36.639+02:002012-03-03T02:27:36.639+02:00Re: Tofanelli etc., and Sardinian genomes
Goncal...Re: Tofanelli etc., and Sardinian genomes<br /> <br />Goncalo Abecacis of UMich presented the massive Sardinian sequencing project at AGBT (6,148 individuals from Lanusei and three nearby towns of Ilbono, Elini, and Arzana in the Lanusei Valley in the Ogliastra region of the Sardinian province of Nuoro). They are doing low-pass with variant detection enhanced by pedigree info and genotyping. The brief project description is here<br />http://genome.sph.umich.edu/wiki/SardiNIA<br />Some of related previous work has recently been published<br />http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1002480MOCKBAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05150628026789690963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-77149216479631116962012-03-03T02:22:37.764+02:002012-03-03T02:22:37.764+02:00@ Achaean
the worst thing that you can do is sear...@ Achaean<br /><br />the worst thing that you can do is searching for representative photos of sardinians in google images, many of those people are not either sardinians, and they don't represent average looking people.<br /><br />Caterina Murino hasn't a typical sardinian looking, shape of her eyes, face, big nose are not typical among sardinian womennanukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05850630012868313209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-3628286772186957722012-03-01T22:01:21.070+02:002012-03-01T22:01:21.070+02:00The Liburni were a people living on the coast of t...The Liburni were a people living on the coast of today's Croatia in 1000 BC. They were in Roman time sailors and pirates and were subdued and rapidly absorbed in the second century BC.<br />They spoke a language similar to the Latin-Faliscan and the Venetics, and this is the basis for the rapid assimilation.<br />The Venetics were absorbed by the Romans without violence, and very quickly too, and this always happens when the languages of the two peoples are very similar.<br /> The ancients were aware of the similarities and invented myths to explained this with tales of heroes who founded the lineage of those peoples (Eneas and Anthenore, the two troian heroes).<br />Today, many scholars believe that the Liburnians were the remains of the Italiacs who lived in the region of Serbia and Croatia, before to emigrate to Italy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-32672546488742418882012-03-01T19:09:18.245+02:002012-03-01T19:09:18.245+02:00Annie Mouse
"Anyone with the axe would be as...Annie Mouse<br /><br />"Anyone with the axe would be assumed to be the killer."<br /><br />Yes, but assuming an axe like that would be very rare and valuable at the time - which might be a wrong assumption? - that tells you a lot about the killer(s).<br /><br />Still, it's a bit late to catch them so not very important :)Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-27567050098860820552012-03-01T13:29:22.403+02:002012-03-01T13:29:22.403+02:00@Gray
I think it was a murder by someone in his co...@Gray<br />I think it was a murder by someone in his community. The murderer took his arrow as arrows are like a fingerprint. He did not take the axe because they were valuable and I imagine his community knew it was his. Anyone with the axe would be assumed to be the killer.<br /><br />@Prince<br /><br />Well for starters U was present in the European paleolithic and it hasnt been found in the south (in the paleolithic), just the north. Those women did not parachute in. Plus there is archaeological evidence of folk moving along the rivers. The Gravettian folk for were not part of the Atlantic coastal movement.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11000684388615334278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-19399857689732906482012-03-01T08:29:39.719+02:002012-03-01T08:29:39.719+02:00Completely irrelevant but the thing that intrigues...Completely irrelevant but the thing that intrigues me the most is why they didn't take his axe?Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-49699462443804737922012-03-01T06:39:12.213+02:002012-03-01T06:39:12.213+02:00Actually to simplify my criticism I should have ju...Actually to simplify my criticism I should have just said that the most northern individual of otzi, the sardinians, and the ESE is still more southern than the northern Italians. Ergo those populations could not possiblly create the modern northern Italians.<br /><br />"I think he is basically an Atlantic coastal type. I think at the end of the paleolithic the population of Europe included a lot of other influences also (river migrations etc)."<br /><br />-Mouse<br /><br />Really? I didn't know. I though the "other" influences came with the neolithic. Can you show me a link?princenuadhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02165977957244158593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-36806781356523940962012-03-01T06:29:05.473+02:002012-03-01T06:29:05.473+02:00" Sardinian/Otzi"
Simply put, the quest..." Sardinian/Otzi"<br /><br />Simply put, the question is how ancient Northern Italians, represented by otzi, became modern Northern Italians. Modern Sardinians are not ancient Northern Italians, so they shouldn't even be included.<br /><br />Even still, you can't draw a line between any two individuals of otzi, the sardinians, and the ESE and have it cross the northern Italians. So even if you were to use any combination of the most extreme individuals (major bias) you can't create the north Italians.<br /><br />It's obvious, more northern groups were at play in the transform from otzi types to the modern North Italians. (That fact is even more blatant when you look at map A)<br /><br />>Balkan/Anatolian<br /><br />What is that? The balkans has a very different range from ESE. Your original argument involved the Helladic/Anatolian cluster, which is different from balkan, and wrong.<br /><br />I could see how how a balkanic migration could transform ancient northern Italy.princenuadhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02165977957244158593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-61390254843326786662012-03-01T02:49:10.045+02:002012-03-01T02:49:10.045+02:00In this other West-Eurasian plot of Dienekes the S...In this other West-Eurasian plot of Dienekes the Sardinians are quite far from the rest of Italians, it's difficult to think they where at one time like them, mixing with something else. North-Italians seem intermediate between Sardinians and Balkans :<br /><br />http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_6XAIk6ygtg/Tcqj7WCS_jI/AAAAAAAADsU/WJDG6R2XnH0/s1600/waeu.pnganthrospainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12619826700444535050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-19615142930268804672012-03-01T00:56:56.441+02:002012-03-01T00:56:56.441+02:00Most Italians are within the envelope that can be ...Most Italians are within the envelope that can be produced by extending the edges of the Sardinian/Otzi cluster to meet the edges of the "Europe SE" cluster. <br /><br />Only the southernmost (genetically) Italians fall outside that envelope, and in their case, they appear to be intermediate between Sardinians/Otzi and Turks. I'm pretty sure that if POPRES had samples of southern/Aegean/Anatolian Greeks, they would occupy the sparse space between the northern Greeks of POPRES and the Turks/Cypriots/south Italians.<br /><br />So, yes, it does appear that modern Italians are different from Sardinians/Otzi in a Balkan/Anatolian direction.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-31397962302210643242012-03-01T00:54:56.093+02:002012-03-01T00:54:56.093+02:00My daughter is partly Corsican, and on the latest ...My daughter is partly Corsican, and on the latest Dodecad Oracle runs, shows up as 80% British/20% Greekpconroyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10312469574812832771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-68140327419749102722012-03-01T00:51:40.295+02:002012-03-01T00:51:40.295+02:00"You think he's paleolithic European... T..."You think he's paleolithic European... Then what migration would make Paleolithic Europe less middle eastern, even after the contribution of the neolithic?"<br /><br />I am not sure I understand your question?<br /><br />I think he is basically an Atlantic coastal type. I think at the end of the paleolithic the population of Europe included a lot of other influences also (river migrations etc).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11000684388615334278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-62299632499812067462012-02-29T23:44:37.379+02:002012-02-29T23:44:37.379+02:00Not the north Italians.
I'm saying it doesn&...Not the north Italians. <br /><br />I'm saying it doesn't look as if northern Italy was like otzi and then a bunch of anatolians came there. <br /><br />Maybe the anatolians came to southern Italy after the time of otzi but Im not sure if otzi could be used to make that point since he was an ancient northern Italian.princenuadhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02165977957244158593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-25196762063908930602012-02-29T23:36:01.352+02:002012-02-29T23:36:01.352+02:00"Perhaps we were wrong about the men of paleo..."Perhaps we were wrong about the men of paleolithic Europe being I. Perhaps they were G. In the south anyhow."<br /><br />Whatever else is true it does seem like there was one strand that hopped from Greece to Southern Italy to Sardinia to (Malta? Southern Portugal? Bits of North Africa? up the Atlantic coast?)<br /><br />The route may have been followed more than once and the scale involved may have been more of a thin ribbon along the coast rather than a big wave.Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-80924716916242469702012-02-29T23:24:47.632+02:002012-02-29T23:24:47.632+02:00I'm not sure what you are objecting to. It is ...I'm not sure what you are objecting to. It is very clear in all analyses that present-day Italians are intermediate between Otzi/Sardinians and Greeks/Anatolians.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-37039627598814081682012-02-29T23:23:06.484+02:002012-02-29T23:23:06.484+02:00" It is very interesting that modern Italians..." It is very interesting that modern Italians appear to be intermediate between Otzi/Sardinians and SE/ESE Europe."<br /><br />No, that would be the south Italians of which otzi was not, in his time.<br /><br />And when you look at the larger picture analysis that including the middle east and north Africa, otzi is even more middle eastern than most modern Italians. I'm also guessing that more relevant than an intra European analysis on an ancient.princenuadhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02165977957244158593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-79439192080989390342012-02-29T21:43:34.520+02:002012-02-29T21:43:34.520+02:00It is very interesting that modern Italians appear...It is very interesting that modern Italians appear to be intermediate between Otzi/Sardinians and SE/ESE Europe.<br /><br />This appears quite consistent with the idea found in Dionysius of Halicarnassus and his sources about the Helladic/Anatolian origin of many population elements in Italy.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.com