tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post7449987057825740101..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Proto-Indo-European homeland in Neolithic Anatolia (Bouckaert et al.)Dienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-27250658908437464972013-10-25T21:24:23.019+03:002013-10-25T21:24:23.019+03:00What are the facts atm.?
Oldest wheel found in Sl...What are the facts atm.?<br /><br />Oldest wheel found in Slovenia:<br />(Ljubljana Marshes Wheel)<br /><br />Oldest wheeled vehicle found in the Balkans, too. At the Cucuteni Tripolye Culture (3800BC).<br /><br />[B]Proto-Indo-European Roots[/B]:<br />Meanings: a wheel, round<br />Cognates (32): Greek polos (a round axis) - remember *kw becomes Greek p before o, a, u<br />Latin colere (to cultivate, move around), bucolicus (a cattleman) = bou- (a bull) + col-<br />Common Celtic *kol- (to move around), bowkolos (a cattleman); > <br />Old Irish bochaill (a herdsman), Irish & Scottish Gaelic buachaill, Welsh bugail, Cornish & Breton bugel<br />Sanskrit carati (he moves, wanders)<br />Avestan c'axra (a chariot, a wagon)<br />Tocharian kuka"l (a wagon)<br />Common Germanic *hwel-, > <br />Old Norse hvel (a wheel), Old English hweol, > <br />English wheel, Swedish hjul<br />Common Baltic *kel- (a wheel), > <br />Old Prussian & Sudovian kelan (a wheel; neut.), Lithuanian kelias (a road, a way)<br />Common Slavic *kolo (a wheel), > <br />Ukrainian & Old Russian & Serbo-Croatian & Slovene & Czech & Slovak & Polish & Sorbian kolo, Lower Sorbian kolaso, Russian koleso (a wheel).<br /><br />Old Slavic Word is Kolo. Kolo can be linked to the Balkan-Neolithic -Complex. We know from pottery of the cucuteni tripilan culture that the people of this culture played kolo as a dance:<br /><br />What is Kolo?<br />The word kolo is an old Slavic word and it can be found in the same form in all the Slavic languages, meaning a wheel, circle, circuit. It also means a group of people associated or organised under the same interest.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248076598635961573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-64085338966226032162013-10-25T21:23:47.675+03:002013-10-25T21:23:47.675+03:00What are the facts atm.?
Oldest wheel found in Sl...What are the facts atm.?<br /><br />Oldest wheel found in Slovenia:<br />(Ljubljana Marshes Wheel)<br /><br />Oldest wheeled vehicle found in the Balkans, too. At the Cucuteni Tripolye Culture (3800BC).<br /><br />[B]Proto-Indo-European Roots[/B]:<br />Meanings: a wheel, round<br />Cognates (32): Greek polos (a round axis) - remember *kw becomes Greek p before o, a, u<br />Latin colere (to cultivate, move around), bucolicus (a cattleman) = bou- (a bull) + col-<br />Common Celtic *kol- (to move around), bowkolos (a cattleman); > <br />Old Irish bochaill (a herdsman), Irish & Scottish Gaelic buachaill, Welsh bugail, Cornish & Breton bugel<br />Sanskrit carati (he moves, wanders)<br />Avestan c'axra (a chariot, a wagon)<br />Tocharian kuka"l (a wagon)<br />Common Germanic *hwel-, > <br />Old Norse hvel (a wheel), Old English hweol, > <br />English wheel, Swedish hjul<br />Common Baltic *kel- (a wheel), > <br />Old Prussian & Sudovian kelan (a wheel; neut.), Lithuanian kelias (a road, a way)<br />Common Slavic *kolo (a wheel), > <br />Ukrainian & Old Russian & Serbo-Croatian & Slovene & Czech & Slovak & Polish & Sorbian kolo, Lower Sorbian kolaso, Russian koleso (a wheel).<br /><br />Old Slavic Word is Kolo. Kolo can be linked to the Balkan-Neolithic -Complex. We know from pottery of the cucuteni tripilan culture that the people of this culture played kolo as a dance:<br /><br />What is Kolo?<br />The word kolo is an old Slavic word and it can be found in the same form in all the Slavic languages, meaning a wheel, circle, circuit. It also means a group of people associated or organised under the same interest.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248076598635961573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-58989708881699023412012-09-13T21:24:16.478+03:002012-09-13T21:24:16.478+03:00The explanation is, that you can not answer to my ...<i>The explanation is, that you can not answer to my post. I can not be a nationalist because I live in other country. I am an immigrant.</i><br /><br />As I already explained in my previous post, I already answered your post but decided not to send my answer and to ignore you due to your agenda-drivenness and dishonesty. Again as I already explained in my previous post, I have no problem with your nationalism but only with your distortion of history in accordance with your nationalist agenda. Being an immigrant in no way prevents nationalism for the homeland and the ethnic group, your argument is absurd. This shall be my last post to you, and I shall ignore you completely from now on. I have no time to waste with the likes of you.<br /><br />Фенынмæ!Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-54837398149176599402012-09-13T20:53:21.381+03:002012-09-13T20:53:21.381+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-84573260363766180982012-09-13T12:49:50.028+03:002012-09-13T12:49:50.028+03:00The explanation is, that you can not answer to my ...The explanation is, that you can not answer to my post. I can not be a nationalist because I live in other country. I am an immigrant.Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11539198765353016467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-63795642618306859022012-09-13T11:42:15.667+03:002012-09-13T11:42:15.667+03:00An explanation for my a few days-long silence on t...An explanation for my a few days-long silence on this thread:<br /><br />After George's last posts on this thread I was thinking of sending a reply to him again, and wrote an excellent reply to him accordingly. But then I decided to ignore him and have not sent him the reply I wrote. I am ignoring him because I read his writings on other boards on the Internet too and saw how ridiculously false, ideological and biased his arguments are, just like his arguments on this thread. He is basically an Ossetian nationalist who recklessly distorts history according to his nationalist wishes and fantasies, and I can have nothing to share with such a person. It really does not matter to me to which nationalism he adheres to or the simple fact that he is a nationalist; it is only with his agenda-drivenness and dishonesty I have problems.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-72834028192009859952012-09-12T23:54:44.966+03:002012-09-12T23:54:44.966+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-59977095599414186392012-09-07T22:25:52.148+03:002012-09-07T22:25:52.148+03:00Compare the Anatolian tribal names and the Scythia...Compare the Anatolian tribal names and the Scythian tribal names.<br />Anatolia: Scythenes, Alizones, Alazones, Amazones, Isauroi etc.<br />Scythia: Scythae, Alizones, Alazones, Amazones, Sauromatae etc.<br /><br />Ninurta King of Assyria hitted the Hittite empire, after that the empire collapsed.<br />"Ninus" ended the 1500 years old Scythian empire in Asia.<br /><br />Hittites had a war with Ramses<br />Ramsis-Vesoz-Sesostris(different Greko-Romean sourses) had a war with Scythians<br /><br />Amazones builded Ephesus and Smyrna - Luvians had these towns.<br />Amazones origineted in Capadocia - Luvians had their Kingdom in Capadocia<br />Amazones were lefted in Capadocia by Scythians - Luvians were in Capadocia after the Hittites and before the Capadocians(Assyrians). <br /><br />The first historical Scythian Kings were in West Asia <br />1)Ishpakai<br />2)Prototyes Partitava Partatua<br />3)Madyes<br /><br />The first Mythical Scythian Kings were in Phases river region(Now west Georgia) Colaxes king of Scythians and Auches king of Kimmerians fighting against the Colchians and Amazonians.<br /><br />The Askanaz(Ashkenaz) kingdoms were in the borders of Ararat kingdom.<br />The Ashkuza(Ishkuza) kingdom was in the borders of Urartu kingdom.<br /><br />etc etcGeorgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11539198765353016467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-28219459029846138502012-09-07T21:52:14.627+03:002012-09-07T21:52:14.627+03:00It is possible that MassaGetae first originated in...It is possible that MassaGetae first originated in Balkans close to the Getae people.<br />The Mushki(Meskhi) hitted the Hittite empire, and it is possible that Mushki(Meskhi) came from Balkans and Mushki(Meskhi)=Massagetae. Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11539198765353016467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-28304449249828153932012-09-07T12:56:18.662+03:002012-09-07T12:56:18.662+03:00And Diodorus wrote that the first Scythians (proto...<i>And Diodorus wrote that the first Scythians (proto-Scythians) originated near to Araxes river. Herodotus belived too that Scythians came from west Asia.<br /><br />Herodotus<br />Asia=West Asia<br />Ano Asia=Persia+India<br />Arimaspia(Altay region)is in Northern Europe.</i><br /><br />Well, according to Herodotus, Scythians originated in the vicinity of Massagetae, whom he places in the great plain east of the Caspian (i.e., Central Asia).Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-52166762131610166992012-09-06T21:14:54.927+03:002012-09-06T21:14:54.927+03:00Coments I found on this here
http://sci.tech-archi...<i>Coments I found on this here<br />http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.lang/2008-08/msg00765.html<br />Cuneiform Luvian wasn't used for mundane texts like this (neither was<br />hieroglyphic, for that matter), so this is probably ordinary Hittite.</i><br /><br />Totally anachronistic and misleading. First, as I said, there has never been Hittite hieroglyphs, NEVER. Second, Hittite ceased to be a written (probably also spoken) language with the Bronze Age collapse. Third, not only Hittite cuneiform but also Luwian cuneiform (essentially the same cuneiform script as Hittite cuneiform) disappeared with the Bronze Age collapse and Luwian was only written with Luwian hieroglyphs thereafter. Capisci?Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-37194362451179859662012-09-06T20:58:34.456+03:002012-09-06T20:58:34.456+03:00And Diodorus wrote that the first Scythians (proto...And Diodorus wrote that the first Scythians (proto-Scythians) originated near to Araxes river. Herodotus belived too that Scythians came from west Asia.<br /><br />Herodotus<br />Asia=West Asia<br />Ano Asia=Persia+India<br />Arimaspia(Altay region)is in Northern Europe.Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11539198765353016467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-46113070135730596332012-09-06T20:52:44.870+03:002012-09-06T20:52:44.870+03:00You can see from this inscription, that the word f...You can see from this inscription, that the word for King is "Kisaa", and Scythian word for King is "Ksay"("Ksaj") from Herodotus (Lipo-Xai-os, Arpo-Xai-os, Kola-Xai-os).<br />The Ossetian word is Hisaw =Lord or Hsaw=Lord,God .Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11539198765353016467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-38361607553632231202012-09-06T20:41:36.753+03:002012-09-06T20:41:36.753+03:00Coments I found on this here
http://sci.tech-archi...Coments I found on this here<br />http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.lang/2008-08/msg00765.html<br />Cuneiform Luvian wasn't used for mundane texts like this (neither was<br />hieroglyphic, for that matter), so this is probably ordinary Hittite.Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11539198765353016467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-9368892605649796822012-09-05T15:16:44.991+03:002012-09-05T15:16:44.991+03:00George,
You cannot prove a West Asian origin for...George, <br /><br />You cannot prove a West Asian origin for Scythians from an inscription (whose language and even script are highly disputed by the way) that is from what is now Iranian Kurdistan and dated to the 7th century BC. Even if we assume that the language of the inscription in question is Scythian, its script is the Luwian hieroglyphic script (there is no such thing as Hittite hieroglyphs, there is Luwian hieroglyphs, so I take the researcher, János Harmatta, to actually mean Luwian hieroglyphs by "Hittite hieroglyphs") and its reading is correct, that does not point to a West Asian origin for Scythians, because it is historically well documented and archaeologically well corroborated that a relatively large number of Scythians migrated from the Scythian country in the Pontic steppe into West Asia through the Caucasus during the early 7th century BC (probably in search of riches), established Scythian rule in the territory between Urartians and Medes, directed from there attacks on much of West Asia and had big effects on the politics of West Asia for about a hundred years (the political and military affairs of Partatua and Madius are especially well recorded) until finally being crushed and pushed back into the Pontic steppe by Medes during the early 6th century BC. So Scythians in West Asia were a short-lived colony originating from the Pontic steppe, just as Cimmerians in West Asia were, irrespective of the cause (though Cimmerians in West Asia would never return to the Pontic steppe, as it had been occupied by Scythians, who had caused them to migrate into West Asia in the first place, so they stayed in West Asia and were gradually absorbed by West Asian natives and disappeared from the record).Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-24602830616738298212012-09-04T18:50:33.146+03:002012-09-04T18:50:33.146+03:00The inscription is about the King Partitava(Partat...The inscription is about the King Partitava(Partatua from Assyrian data), in Herodotus Historiae you may found the Scythian King Prototyes, this King was in West Asia, his son Madyes King of Scythians conquered the Median empire and entered the Syria and Palestine. Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11539198765353016467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-32017571538276336782012-08-30T18:56:48.169+03:002012-08-30T18:56:48.169+03:00How do we reconcile a Neolithic Anatolian IE home...How do we reconcile a Neolithic Anatolian IE homeland (from the south) with the the westward dispersals of Baltic-Slavic nations from farther eastern Europe to their current locations, and with their interactions with Finnish tribes in that process? Would this imply that the Slavic languages came from the Balkans and the Danube basin and wet farther north?formerjerseyboyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12359486237718341127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-87650014571360906142012-08-29T23:04:01.939+03:002012-08-29T23:04:01.939+03:00"Even the proto-Scythian originated in West A..."Even the proto-Scythian originated in West Asia."<br /><br />Interesting.<br /><br />How do we know this is proto-Scythian (a very amorphous name that could be applied to a variety of peoples). The transcription looks quite like Old Persian which is very close to Avestan and Sanskrit.<br /><br />"DAHYUupati" could very well be king of the Dahae (Dasyu).<br /><br />The Dahae are supposed be from near the Caspian but Tacitus also puts them near the Indus (unless his Sindes is not Indus): "Vardanes winning a complete victory, and in a series of successful engagements subduing the intermediate tribes as far as the river Sindes, which is the boundary between the Dahae and the Arians. There his successes terminated." http://classics.mit.edu/Tacitus/annals.7.xi.html<br /><br />Periplus also calls the lower Indus delta, Scythia:<br />"seaboard of Skythia, a region which extends to northward. It is very low and flat, and contains the mouths of the Sinthos, the largest of all the rivers which fall into the Erythraean Sea, and which, indeed, pours into it such a vast body of water that while you are yet far off from the land at its mouth you find the sea turned of a white colour by its waters." http://www.archive.org/stream/commercenavigati00mccrrich/commercenavigati00mccrrich_djvu.txtAPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09934397498634833316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-44846181171207681422012-08-29T05:18:07.627+03:002012-08-29T05:18:07.627+03:00Kelteminar? No.
[IMG]http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/ho...<br />Kelteminar? No.<br /><br />[IMG]http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/jphakkin/Keski-AasiaU.jpg[/IMG]<br /><br />Evidence for Proto-Uralic location:<br />[url]http://www.sgr.fi/susa/92/hakkinen.pdf[/url]<br /><br />Evidence for Pre-Proto-Uralic location:<br />[url]http://www.sgr.fi/sust/sust264/sust264_hakkinenj.pdf[/url]<br /><br />Evidence for Early, Middle and Late Proto-Aryan location:<br />[url]http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/home/jphakkin/UralicEvidence.pdf[/url]<br /><br />Dienekes:<br />>It's in Anthony's book, p.64 so go ahead and read it.<br /><br />Thanks. He quotes Ringe; I will try to find out the original source. <br /><br />Anthony, page 34:<br />"The meaning of wheel is given additional support by the fact that it has an Indo-European etymology - - That root was *kwel-, a verb that meant 'to turn'. So *kwekwlos is not just a random string of phonemes reconstructed from the cognates for wheel; it meant 'the thing that turns.' This not only tends to confirm the meaning 'wheel' rather than 'circle' or 'vehicle' but it also indicates that the speakers of Proto-Indo-European made up their own words for wheels."<br />Jaakko Häkkinenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03088022045546791438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-82457487290787824882012-08-28T23:08:55.818+03:002012-08-28T23:08:55.818+03:00Even the proto-Scythian originated in West Asia.
...Even the proto-Scythian originated in West Asia.<br /><br />An inscription from Saqqez(north west Iran) written in the Hieroglyphic Hittite script may represent Scythian: [8]<br /> <br />Transliteration:<br /> pa-tì-na-sa-nà tà-pá wa-s₆-na-m₅ XL was-was-ki XXX ár-s-tí-m₅ ś₃-kar-kar (HA) har-s₆-ta₅ LUGAL | par-tì-ta₅-wa₅ ki-ś₃-a₄-á KUR-u-pa-ti QU-wa-a₅ | i₅-pa-ś₂-a-m₂<br /> <br />Transcription:<br /> patinasana tapa. vasnam: 40 vasaka 30 arzatam šikar. UTA harsta XŠAYAL. | Partitava xšaya DAHYUupati xva|ipašyam<br /> <br />Translation:<br /> "Delivered dish. Value: 40 calves 30 silver šiqlu. And it was presented to the king. | King Partitavas, the masters of the land property."<br /> <br />King Partitava equates to the Scythian king called Prototyēs in Herodotus (1.103) and known as Par-ta-tu-a in the Assyrian sources. ("Partatua of Sakasene" married the daughter of Esarhaddon c. 675 BC)Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11539198765353016467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-3493698970371483082012-08-28T22:53:19.800+03:002012-08-28T22:53:19.800+03:00And the first wheels and wagons were discovered in...And the first wheels and wagons were discovered in north west Balkans(Baden culture 3600 BC), and horse first domesticated in north east Balkans(Cernavodă culture 4000 BC). Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11539198765353016467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-72279494188226826022012-08-28T22:37:13.245+03:002012-08-28T22:37:13.245+03:00The proto-Anatolian was neither Centum nor Satem, ...The proto-Anatolian was neither Centum nor Satem, so it is more basal and more relict, than the other IE languages.<br />But I think that the proto-Anatolian originated in Greece, because of some toponymy Amphi-ssa A-ssa O-ssa Dory-ssa. <br />And the Kartvelian have substrate from an unknown IE language.<br />So maybe in Anatolia were other IE people before the Hittite-Luvians.Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11539198765353016467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-36685320208602757152012-08-28T22:05:36.618+03:002012-08-28T22:05:36.618+03:00Finnish has some common words with South Indian. ...Finnish has some common words with South Indian. and language structure is like North Indian.<br /><br />Ex: <br />Akka , Sarakka.<br />Miten: My( hindi)<br />Tanaan(today): Taana( South Indian)<br /><br />What does it matter. After another 50 years or so nobody even cares language. Take it easy guys.South Central Haplohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00916788636469000041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-245358734424493292012-08-28T21:45:36.863+03:002012-08-28T21:45:36.863+03:00The debate here is interesting, firstly we know th...The debate here is interesting, firstly we know that wheel (and various other words connected to wagins)is not a post-PIE loan word because it follows a systematic set of sound changes associated with the different IE families.<br /><br />The racket example simply doesn't work.<br /><br />Secondly, this type of research is entirely without value. We know, without the slightest shadow of a doubt, that languages can change beyond intelligibility within a few generations, or remain essentially the same for 100's of years. British English Jamaican English and American English "diverged" at exactly the same time, yet one two are completely mutually understandable, whereas the third is an entirely different language.<br /><br />And that's without even getting on to ideas like dialect chains and language replacement.<br /><br />And this radical change can happen an unlimited number of times over a language's history, or it might never occur. So how can there possibly be any validity in trying to establish a point of departure using language difference as a starting point?<br /><br />I've no problem with the Anatolian theory per se, but this is the kind of research where you have to be really, really, clever to be so stupid.Belenoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15576215104931708232noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-23058623133846095962012-08-28T21:32:01.419+03:002012-08-28T21:32:01.419+03:00"Jaska said -> Oh, please! Read my link. A..."Jaska said -> Oh, please! Read my link. Are you claiming that Proto-Uralic originates in South Asia?"<br /><br />Kelteminar culture - Neolithic culture of Caucasoid fishermen who lived in the southern Aral Sea region in the VI-III millennium BC. e. [1] [2] [3] V.A. Alekshin "Archaeology of Central Asia". Researchers have drawn parallels and believe that culture related to Pit–Comb Ware culture and belonged to the circle of the Finno-Ugric peoples. [4] Replaced by the tazabagyabsky culture. The existence of this culture is often used as an argument against the existence of the Aryan ancestral homeland in Central Asia. Discovered by expedition in 1939 (Tolstov)<br />http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80%D0%B0Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11539198765353016467noreply@blogger.com