tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post7421707760355729053..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: The womb of nations: how West Eurasians came to beDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger64125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-39465727119923882162014-09-20T01:49:40.171+03:002014-09-20T01:49:40.171+03:00Before ANE and AHG there where "Basal Eurasia...Before ANE and AHG there where "Basal Eurasians".<br /><br />"Previous work suggested that Europeans descended from two ancestral groups: indigenous hunter-gatherers and early European farmers. This new study shows that there was also a third ancestral group, the Ancient North Eurasians, who contributed genetic material to almost all present-day Europeans. The research also reveals an even older lineage, the Basal Eurasians."<br /><br />http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140917131812.htmbatmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-15710077904781366362012-04-01T13:08:36.638+03:002012-04-01T13:08:36.638+03:00autosomalautosomalDienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-28955492605089672652012-04-01T04:29:58.531+03:002012-04-01T04:29:58.531+03:00Dienkes; were these calculations based on autosoma...Dienkes; were these calculations based on autosomal data or Y haplogroups ?Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-13680695033177301062012-01-10T10:32:05.724+02:002012-01-10T10:32:05.724+02:00>because there is no European population that i...>because there is no European population that is almost entiirely made up of mtDNA U as the Mesolithic populations that have been sampled<br /><br />A significant shift in mtdna frequencies does not imply a significant shift in admixture. Also, meso Europe did have non U.<br /><br />I guessed that the northeast Europeans were mostly meso European because I havent seen (much) evidence for a shift since they were established as still being "meso" after the neolithic revolution. If there were a admixture shift I would have expected good evidence for a non meso E migration... But I don't.<br /><br />> the North European component has not diverged (in terms of Fst) to any significant degree from the other Caucasoid components<br /><br />I don't know how to estimate times but the close distance can come from recent divergence and/or gene flow (in both directions). Your argument is that there is a parent population that gas been largely preserved, ie the caucasus component. This implies a largely one way gene flow and i don't see how you can argue that for Northeast Europe without the neolithic impact.<br /><br />> We are not assuming anything, we are observing that the Basques do not possess some components found in their Indo-European neighbors.<br /><br />You are when you argue that info Europeans were mostly of that component.<br /><br />> There is no reason to assume that R1b has anything to do with the Proto-Indo-Europeans<br /><br />What i was tying to say is that I think the indo Europeans are a good candidate as to who brought r1b to the basques. If that's what happened then we could expect the basque to show IE admixture.princenuadhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02165977957244158593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-83135953469228902742012-01-04T20:33:05.749+02:002012-01-04T20:33:05.749+02:00"North European" peaks in Northeastern E...<i>"North European" peaks in Northeastern Europe. A recent craniological study showed that the neolithic transition in this area happened by indigenous hunter gathers adopting neolithic practices, not middle eastern migrants.</i><br /><br />That is quite irrelevant, since it cannot be assumed that present-day Northeastern Europeans are descended primarily from any particularl group of people. It does seem, on the basis of mtDNA, that they are more descended from the Mesolithic mtDNA-U bearing stratum, but not exclusively by any means.<br /><br /><i>Unless there was a more recent and significant migration, "North European" probably represents Mesolithic European heritage.</i><br /><br />That is inaccurate, both because there is no European population that is almost entiirely made up of mtDNA U as the Mesolithic populations that have been sampled, and also because the North European component has not diverged (in terms of Fst) to any significant degree from the other Caucasoid components, and hence cannot have been derived to a substantial degree from populations that went their own way much earlier than the Neolithic.<br /><br /><i>And about the indo Europeans, should we be assuming that the basques would have much less IE heritage? We know they have a lot of r1b and that r1b likely got there post neolithic.</i><br /><br />We are not assuming anything, we are observing that the Basques do not possess some components found in their Indo-European neighbors.<br /><br />There is no reason to assume that R1b has anything to do with the Proto-Indo-Europeans (its near absence in peninsular India, and paucity in Pakistan precludes that), although some of it may have been carried by secondary movements of Indo-Europeanized groups.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-12707321004352496662012-01-04T05:45:52.243+02:002012-01-04T05:45:52.243+02:00" And, to the north, from either the Balkans,..." And, to the north, from either the Balkans, the Caucasus, or the trans-Caspian region, they would have met the last remaining Proto-Europeoid hunters of the continental zone, becoming the Northern Europeoids who once stretched all the way to the interior of Asia."<br /><br />"North European" peaks in Northeastern Europe. A recent craniological study showed that the neolithic transition in this area happened by indigenous hunter gathers adopting neolithic practices, not middle eastern migrants.<br /><br />Unless there was a more recent and significant migration, "North European" probably represents Mesolithic European heritage.<br /><br />And about the indo Europeans, should we be assuming that the basques would have much less IE heritage? We know they have a lot of r1b and that r1b likely got there post neolithic.princenuadhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02165977957244158593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-69032062781600919262011-12-21T11:59:11.474+02:002011-12-21T11:59:11.474+02:00"Andronovo is not in Central Asia."
Th...<i>"Andronovo is not in Central Asia."</i> <br /><br />The Andronovo horizon, is located in central Asia. And its ancestral cultures are just south of the Urals (starting around 2300 BCE). <br /><br />Kurti : <i>"how does this change the fact that autosomaly spoken the Kurds, Ossetians and Lezgians come closer to the original Iranian genetic make up than other Indo-Iranian groups living in Central Asia today"</i><br /><br />Irrelevant. Language shifting can occurs via the impulse of a dominant minority as seen several time in history. Besides they are kind of marginal given their history and location. Weird to take them as decisive examples (Besides, Kurds have more R1a1a than their neighbors). <br />Anyway, are modern Turks of Anatolia autosomally close to the Yakuts, the Kyrgyz or the Uyghurs? <br /><br />Archeology and linguistics (*) favor an origin of Indo-iranian (proto-indo-iranian) close to the Urals (Russia/Central Asia) and the haplogroup to consider is thus R1a1a (J2a is very rare in this region). Indo-Aryan origin is to be found there too, despite early occurences in west Asia (<i>presence of Indo-aryan words linked to horses and chariotry (indo-aryan deities as well) in the bronze age Mitanni kingdom, governor suardata at Qiltu near Jerusalem in the same time frame (apparently from indo-aryan "svardata"), and possible indo-iranian loanwords in the Kassite Dynasty in Babylonia</i>), not only Iranic (in UGRIC languages their ancient indo-iranian input have matches mostly or only in indo-aryan (e.g. <b>Hungarian</b> <i>tehén</i> (cow) is way closer to <b>sanskrit</b> <i>dhenu</i> than to <b>Avestan</b> <i>dainu</i>)). <br /><br />(*) <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=ui3nAXVstroC&pg=PA200&dq=indo-iranian+finno-ugric&hl=en&ei=AG0PTZHfJouLswbtmqj2DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=indo-iranian%20finno-ugric&f=false" rel="nofollow">example 1</a><br /><br />(*) <a href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/27192729/david-anthony-the-horse-the-wheel-and-language" rel="nofollow">example 2 (go to page 385 in the book (197 to type in the search field))</a><br /><br />This coupled with the fact that scythian-like populations were clearly iranic speaking, it's a BIG smoking gun.Waggghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07290153600827942469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-15869217471140270882011-12-19T05:03:02.317+02:002011-12-19T05:03:02.317+02:00The Indo-European homeland is probably somewhere i...<i>The Indo-European homeland is probably somewhere in Ukraine.<br /><br />The Indo-Iranian homeland is most likely Central Asia (Andronovo). I see no reason to go with a West Asian hypothesis for either besides political reasons certain groups might have.</i><br /><br />When Ukraine was transported to Central Asia?Ar-Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04006636332408713193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-78522271813862105672011-12-19T04:39:57.323+02:002011-12-19T04:39:57.323+02:00[I]The Indo-European homeland is probably somewher...[I]The Indo-European homeland is probably somewhere in Ukraine.[/I]<br /><br />Where was here the talk about the Indo-European homeland but Iranian one.<br /><br />[I]The Indo-Iranian homeland is most likely Central Asia (Andronovo). I see no reason to go with a West Asian hypothesis for either besides political reasons certain groups might have.[I]<br /><br />Good you might be right but how does this change the fact that autosomaly spoken the Kurds, Ossetians and Lezgians come closer to the original Iranian genetic make up than other Indo-Iranian groups living in Central Asia today. The closest today known Iranian group to the original homeland are the Tajiks. If you take out the South Asian and East Asian genes you get similar Admixture to those Groups mentioned above.<br /><br />[i]Also I don't see why Kurds and Ossetians would be the best representations of the original population giving their location. Ossetians have less R1a than their non Indo-Iranian neighbors[/I]<br /><br />Just forgot about the Haplogroup distribution which can shift its frequency very simple. Even though Tajiks got 50-60% R1a1a why do they have almost the same genetic make up as Lezgians, Kurds, Ossetians etc? <br /><br />And just for your information. J2a was found in all Iranian speaking Groups and is the second frequent Haplogroup.<br /><br /><J2a:<br /><br />Haplogroup J2 especially the subcadle J2a is frequently found among almost all groups of Iranic people. In comparison with the Haplogroup R1a1, J2 is not only restricted to geographically eastern and western Iranic populations, but also found among north-western and south-western Iranic populations such as the Bakhtiaris and Mazanderani,[68][69] as well as geographically north-western Iranic Ossetians.[70] Despite its supposed origin in the fertile crescent, J2a is also found among Iranic populations in the east such as the Yagnobi which are of Soghdian origin[71] as well as the Parsis of India.[72] Beside the relatively high percentage among the Yagnobis in Central Asia, other Iranic populations tend to have a higher frequency of J2a when compared to neighboring Turkic populations. The relatively strong presence of J2a among Ossetians as well as Yagnobis proves distant from the supposed Mesopotamian origin region of J2, are carriers of this Haplogroup.<br /><br />In the Indo-Iranian context, the occurrence of J2a in South Asia is limited to caste populations, with the highest frequencies found among northern areas of South Asia.[73][74] Compared with R1a1, J2a shows a more conservative distribution, stronger limited to Indo-Iranian origin groups.[73]<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_peoples<br /><br />[i]Plus Kurds have significant SW Asian/Med[I]<br /><br />Yes your right. I forgot to mention this. Southwest Asian can be explained with ancient and more recent historic events like the semitic waves of Akkadians and the Islamic expansion. The same for the Med component. Some of it is probably native some other might have been brought with Greek expansion. There are still huge Greek monuments in Kurdistan. Nisibis, the Region where I come from was once hugely settled by Mygdon Greeks.<br /><br />[I] Given the fact that Tajiks and Pashtuns are closer to the Indo-Iranian homeland and have had contact with Indo-Iranians past the original migrations(Kushans, Scythians etc) they are probably closer to them. Their R1a frequency, and high Caucasus/Gedrosia/Atlantic-Baltic components only adds to the argument.[/I]<br /><br />No one is denying the Iranicnes of Pashtuns or Tajiks but you must admit that those both are more mixed with not so much Caucasian components. I am simply saying that Lezgians are genetically closer to what the original Iranians (be it from Central Asia) were than Tajiks today are. <br /><br />Scythian, Cimmerian and Alan presence can be found in all of the Caucasus, North Iran and East Anatolia. And not to forget the Mitannis.Kurtihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15370578131814705759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-33558033873660000632011-12-19T02:33:41.859+02:002011-12-19T02:33:41.859+02:00The Indo-Iranian homeland is most likely Central A...<i>The Indo-Iranian homeland is most likely Central Asia (Andronovo).</i><br /><br />Andronovo is not in Central Asia.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-83756618920554962082011-12-19T00:49:08.813+02:002011-12-19T00:49:08.813+02:00That sounds ridiculous.
The Indo-European homelan...That sounds ridiculous.<br /><br />The Indo-European homeland is probably somewhere in Ukraine.<br /><br />The Indo-Iranian homeland is most likely Central Asia (Andronovo). I see no reason to go with a West Asian hypothesis for either besides political reasons certain groups might have.<br /><br />Also I don't see why Kurds and Ossetians would be the best representations of the original population giving their location. Ossetians have less R1a than their non Indo-Iranian neighbors. They also possess R1b, J1 and I at significant frequencies and lack R1a (especially Ossetians) when you compare them to Tajiks and Pashtuns. And R1b, J1, I were certainly not part of the Indo-Iranian gene pool given their complete absence in Afghanistan/Tajikistan/Pakistan/NW India. Plus Kurds have significant SW Asian/Med which are lacking in Indic speakers as well as Pashtuns and Tajiks for the most part. Given the fact that Tajiks and Pashtuns are closer to the Indo-Iranian homeland and have had contact with Indo-Iranians past the original migrations(Kushans, Scythians etc) they are probably closer to them. Their R1a frequency, and high Caucasus/Gedrosia/Atlantic-Baltic components only adds to the argument.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-35439167451774651292011-12-18T20:39:04.434+02:002011-12-18T20:39:04.434+02:00<<I was speculating that the original Indo-i...<<I was speculating that the original Indo-iranians (who admixed with the BMAC and maybe IVC people) were Gedrosia, Caucaus and Atlantic-Balitc by ancestry./<br /><br />Yeah I know what you mean. The Tajik_Y are a good example. If you take out the far eastern and Sibirian and South Asian components which can be explained with historical waves of immigrations,<br /><br />you get three main components Caucasus (20%) 2/7, Gedrosia (31%) 3/7 and North European (19%) 2/7. And this was probably the closest to the original Iranian admixture. <br /><br />It might sound a bit boastful but the closest to this original Iranian admixture are the Kurd_D/Y (which are mainly from Iraq/Iran) and North Ossetian_Y samples in my opinion. Just that Ossetians have too much Caucasus and too little Gedorisa and the Kurds on the other hand just a bit too much Caucasus and a bit too less North European. Imagine a Kurd_Y samples with more (+12%) North European and the North_Ossetian samples with less Caucasus and more Gedrosia and you will have a picture of how the original Iranians looked like.<br /><br />Now INTERESTINGLY enough outside the Iranian speakers. The best match for this admixture are LEZGIANS in NORTHEAST CAUCASUS. They fit perfectly how I imagine the genetic make up of the early Iranians. It seems to me that Dienekes theory, (at least based on Iranian speakers) the homeland of Indo-Europeans being from Northeast Caucasus fits very well.Kurtihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15370578131814705759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-41022468071825398842011-12-17T03:13:30.342+02:002011-12-17T03:13:30.342+02:00I know there is actual South/Southwest Asian influ...I know there is actual South/Southwest Asian influence.<br /><br />I was speculating that the original Indo-iranians (who admixed with the BMAC and maybe IVC people) were Gedrosia, Caucaus and Atlantic-Balitc by ancestry.<br /><br />I was curious on the percentages they would hav e had of those 3 components.<br /><br />Also what phenotype do you THINK it would produce? We can't be sure but we can speculate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-74908989057165234132011-12-16T23:17:21.036+02:002011-12-16T23:17:21.036+02:00Dear Dienekes, firstly I want to thank you for you...Dear Dienekes, firstly I want to thank you for your priceless work,<br />I know that you’re a supporter of Anatolian Hypothesis, do you have any clue about the autosomal frequencies(Caucasian, Mediterranean … etc ) that the Proto-IE speaking farmers had?<br />Thanks.Ar-Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04006636332408713193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-32709401985392918862011-12-16T17:28:09.930+02:002011-12-16T17:28:09.930+02:00@6a2dab90...
The answer is simple. Just look at th...@6a2dab90...<br />The answer is simple. Just look at the v3 admixture of Brits. They had 7% West Asian. And now they have 3% Caucasus and 8.5% Gedriosia. So 4% of West Asian moved into Gedrosia but still there are 4% whichj can only be explained with some West European and the minor 0.5%(South Asian) they had. 0.4% of it disappeared probably cause it was more Ani like and has fallen into Gedrosia.<br /><br />Take the Kurdish samples. They had on v3 10-15% West and East European but now 7% what can be explained with that some of it (probably West European) moved into Gedrosia. While a good chunk of former West Asian moved into Gedrosia, some of the former Mediterranian found in Near East moved into Caucasus component.<br /><br />So it is obvious for me that Gedrosia is made of mainly by West Asian of the former ADMIXTURE v3 with strong (25%?) input of West European, and some paleolitic Central-South Asian ANI(15%).<br /><br />i believe the best place of origin for this component is somewhere between Kazakhstan and Pakistan (BMAC?):<br /><br />Between you cant compare this component to any generel phenotype of a country. Even though Baluch, Burusho got the highest percentage, they still have a significant real South Asian and Southwest Asian input. <br /><br />Just imagine 1000 People, 800 of them Gedrosia and 200 Southwest Asian and South Asian. obviously the 200 will have a strong influence on the phenotype.Kurtihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15370578131814705759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-38690379083091113282011-12-16T13:08:18.567+02:002011-12-16T13:08:18.567+02:00Onur:
So it seems that the "Gedrosia" c...Onur:<br /><br /><i>So it seems that the "Gedrosia" component rather than the "Caucasus" component might be closest to the original Caucasoid genetic variation. The relative proximity of the "Gedrosia" component to the "South Asian" component might be due to tha fact that the Caucasoid race originated in northern South Asia or somewhere nearby to its north during the Upper Paleolithic rather than absorbtion of an "ASI" substrate. So as Caucasoids spread from northern South Asia to West Eurasia and North Africa during the Upper Paleolithic they differentiated from the original Caucasoid due to drift rather than absorbtion of another substrate.</i><br /><br />Yeah, something like that. I have been saying for years that the subcontinent was effectively divided into two parts due to extremely arid conditions after ~70,000 ya til ~55,000 ya, and then again ~40,000 ya til ~15,000 ya. Thus, the progenitors of ANI and Caucasoids likely formed in the NW (of the subcontinent), where they (i) developed a colder temperature cultural package and (ii) re-developed big-game hunting skills when the wetter conditions after ~55,000 ya formed extensive grasslands/ savannas. Anything west of this is primarily and firstly closely related because it originated here, ~50,000 ya. Yes, there was additional gene flow post LGM / agricultural that affected most everyone, but the foundations were put down long before.<br /><br />This is not inconsistent with the Fst data if we are a bit more generous with the timings:<br /><br />Say, ooA had two waves, one ~115,000 and another 85,000 ya (must be before 70,000 due to climate and SE Asian diversity). The average is 100,000 ya. If we assign this to Siberian or SE Asian vs. an average of West and East African (both slightly tainted), we get ~100,000y/0.2Fst or ~500,000y/Fst. This would date the ~0.1 Mediterranean, SW Asian, or NW African Fst distance from S Asia to 50,000 ya - consistent with the above model. Or 43,500 for Northern Europe - excellent fit to archaeology. 21,000 years between the Caucasus and Northern Europe: agricultural exchange shows itself and appears to shorten the true time distance of part of the background. Mediterranean and Northern Europe: 23,000 years - sSeparated during LGM - check. Etc.<br /><br />Dienekes:<br /><br /><i>Also, the fact that West Asia is ultimately involved in the Indo-European phenomenon is strongly suggested by an examination of the two non-Indo-European populations of Europe, Basques and Finns, that differ from their neighbors in terms of the Caucasus component.</i><br /><br />But that could be a side effect of admixture during initial agricultural expansion. It doesn't exclude the Balkans, or more generally the SW shores and inland areas of the Black Sea being the IE urheimat.eurologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03440019181278830033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-25799026095342499222011-12-16T09:33:03.746+02:002011-12-16T09:33:03.746+02:00Also i read somewhere the North Eurasian component...Also i read somewhere the North Eurasian component in some Haryanvi jatts was 29%(about 22% western, 7 eastenrn). is this true? This is ridiculous. This imprlies it might have been the mjority component at some point which also seems ridiculous. Is it actually an indo iranian component or indo iranis assimilating north eurasians or both?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-87301670522580746312011-12-16T09:03:05.938+02:002011-12-16T09:03:05.938+02:00Where are you getting that composition of Gedrosia...Where are you getting that composition of Gedrosia? And is the North Eurasian component Western or Eastern? Didn't dodecad v3 show it to be western(which made me think it is neolithic or from the Caucaus or maybe it is from tocharians who were part of the kushans)?<br /><br />Vasishta what type of phenotype would the West Eurasian components in pakistan/afghanistan produce assuming no asi(and later west eurasian/non indo-iranian/scythian intrusions) was present? Basically what would the population look like if it was composed of Indo-Iranian/BMAC/IVC/Tocharian/Scythian ancestry only?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-80038026449022716012011-12-16T00:14:17.235+02:002011-12-16T00:14:17.235+02:00I believe Gedrosia is one of the main Aryan elemen...I believe Gedrosia is one of the main Aryan elements and is made up of 25% North European, 60% Caucasus and 15% ANI from Dodecad v3.Kurtihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15370578131814705759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-58956948775920565612011-12-15T18:18:30.948+02:002011-12-15T18:18:30.948+02:00Hi Dienekes. A few questions;
- Is the Gedrosia co...Hi Dienekes. A few questions;<br />- Is the Gedrosia component a by-product of ancient genetic drift? We know that the same South-Asian populations that previously exhibited <i>West-Asian</i> admixture now display Gedrosia, and in many groups, a non-trace amount of Caucasus admixture. Are both these components somehow descendants, of, say, a proto-West Asian component?<br />- I also notice that there is slight variation as far as the Gedrosia vs Caucasus component are concerned among individuals belonging to the same ethnic group in Indian_D. For instance, one individual will have more Caucasus admixture than the other, but that other individual also happens to have more Gedrosia than the individual who has more Caucasus than him/her. What can explain this phenomenon? Is it possible that the closeness of the components might have resulted in some sort of recombination that has made the Caucasus admixture seemingly less? Is there some selective inheritance or "luck" involved?<br />- You mention that the Gedrosia component is shifted towards the South Indian-modal component. Is this because the Gedrosia is a composite between a West-Asian and South Indian element, or is it because a Gedrosia-like component contributed to the West-Eurasian fraction of the <i>South Asian</i> (which peaks in the Metspalu et al. Tamil Pulliyar) component? While the "South Asian" component is certainly more ASI-like upon the appearance of the Gedrosia component, it still seems to have a West-Eurasian element subsumed under it.<br />- Finally, in light of the above, is Gedorsia a purely West-Eurasian component?Vasishtahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16475698920004634252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-55278646069099467232011-12-15T14:08:36.456+02:002011-12-15T14:08:36.456+02:00ANI has completely a West Eurasian character. it i...ANI has completely a West Eurasian character. it is somehow even closer to West Asian as Southwest Asian is to it. And you cant change this fact just cause of some .....centric agenda.Kurtihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15370578131814705759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-49928737310510203672011-12-15T11:40:24.656+02:002011-12-15T11:40:24.656+02:00So It makes you feel better calling "West Eur...<i>So It makes you feel better calling "West Eurasian" Dienekes?.</i><br /><br />Get a map and you'll agree with me.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-30501558956612097592011-12-15T05:08:54.187+02:002011-12-15T05:08:54.187+02:00So It makes you feel better calling "West Eur...So It makes you feel better calling "West Eurasian" Dienekes?.South Central Haplohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00916788636469000041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-56621128020214355022011-12-15T01:53:33.550+02:002011-12-15T01:53:33.550+02:00Don't call it "West Eurasian" if it ...Don't call it "West Eurasian" if it makes you feel better, but that does not change the fact that ANI is genetically much closer to Europeans and West Asians (i.e., West Eurasians) than it is to ASI.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-43390176444661394102011-12-15T01:38:30.271+02:002011-12-15T01:38:30.271+02:00Reich et al never said that there was any flow of ...Reich et al never said that there was any flow of west Eurasian gene into South Asia. To prevent such misleading readings of their article, they explicitly mentioned “These results do not mean that the Indian groups descend from mixtures of European and Austro-Asiatic speakers, but only that they derivefrom at least two different groups that are (distantly) related toCEU and Santhal.<br /><br />Reich et al “The most remarkable feature of the PCA is a gradient of proximity to western eurasians, an analogous PCA in Europeans did not produce a gradient of <br />proximity to India” <br /><br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842210/figure/F4/<br /><br />-the chart gives no timeframe.<br /><br />Reich et al “the fact that different Indian groups have inherited different proportions of <br />ancestry from the ‘Ancestral North Indians’ (ANI) who are relatedto western Eurasians, and the ‘Ancestral South Indians’ (ASI).”<br />It does not say that different Indian groups have inherited different proportions of ancestry from the CEU.<br /><br />Sahoo et al had actually written the following words:“The perennial concept of people, language, and<br />agriculture arriving to India together through thenorthwest corridor does not hold up to close scrutiny.Recent claims for a linkage of haplogroups J2, L, R1a,and R2 with a contemporaneous origin for the majority of <br />the Indian castes’ paternal lineages from outside the<br />subcontinent are rejected, although our findings do support a local origin of haplogroups F* and H.” (p. 847).They also rule out arrivals from Southwest Asia becauseWest Asian haplogroups (like Y-Hg G) are not found in India<br /><br />''The researchers found that Indian populations had more genetic diversity - which gives an indication of the age of a population - than either Europeans or East Asians.'' 2011. A six year project mapping human genome.The results from the Genographic Project are published in the journal Molecular Biology and Evolution.bmdriverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02175936825472291559noreply@blogger.com