tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post7310624201815659848..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: More detailed analysis of Eurasian populations (K=10)Dienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-49175809425176739602010-10-30T16:59:06.719+03:002010-10-30T16:59:06.719+03:00Fanty, thanks for the link. The list is incomplete...Fanty, thanks for the link. The list is incomplete (I have seen more project members in Polako's genetic analyses), but still it is a good source since it provides valuable information about the backgrounds of some project members (like GR1).Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-91143147140711010812010-10-30T12:10:41.037+03:002010-10-30T12:10:41.037+03:00Permanent villages and towns around Asmara predate...Permanent villages and towns around Asmara predate, and were also contemporaneous with, even the pre-Aksumite settlements in the highland of Southern Eritrea and northern Ethiopia.<br />Dating –C.14- from 800 BC, (it is the walls discovered) -- not sites in Arabia -- that were the vital precursors to urban developments in the southern highlands of Eritrea and northern Ethiopia later in the first millennium BC<br />Likewise, students of evolution and distribution of languages now believe that Semitic and Cushitic At their foot survive. Languages are of African origin. Yes a lot of revision and rewriting of textbooks is called for!.<br /> Knowing now that Geez are so or more ancient than Hebrew and Geez was spoken and written at first in ancient Semitic Hebrew figures since 3000 B.C. <br />A short track leads past even more pre-Aksumite ruins at Metera, one of Eritrea's World Heritage sites. Like Sembel, they are adjacent to productive agricultural land. Dressed stonework, artistically designed courses, a covered tomb chamber –where now is testing bone and teeth DNA samples- and several substantial walls of this early settlement At Metema, a unique pre-Christian inscribed stele (or obelisk) once stood 4.68metres above the ground (and another meter below it). But today its base, 80 X 28 cm, lies shattered and scattered up to 40 meters by high explosives clearly deliberately and carefully attached by the retiring Ethiopian army; such a tragedy cannot reflect well on Ethiopia's ongoing campaign to recover an Aksumite obelisk which Benito Mussolini had shipped to Rome and erected near the Gate of Constantine.<br />Certain of these earlier sites, including Metera and Kohaito in modern Eritrea and Yeha and Aksum just across the border in northern Ethiopia, have been designated world Heritage Sites by UNESCO -- but their supposed origin as Sabaen colonies established in pre-Islamic times has not previously been questioned. <br />The fact is that recent surveys reveal that far from being an insignificant forerunner of Aksum, the ruins on the Kohaito plateau in Eritrea indicate very extensive settlement. documented archaeological sites there to date number more than 1, 000. The names of many of its emperors are known from inscriptions and a coinage and there are near contemporary accounts of its adoption of Christianity in the 4th century <br />Likewise, ancient African harbors on the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden -- including Suakin in modern Sudan, Adulis on the Bay of Zula east of Massawa in Eritrea, and Zeila and Berbera in Somaliland -- are well known from inscriptions in Egypt and elsewhere and from mention in manuscripts.horaciohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08177107320272273468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-2801094905544698002010-10-30T03:59:13.030+03:002010-10-30T03:59:13.030+03:00Likely Ethiopian Jews are the result of the conflu...Likely Ethiopian Jews are the result of the confluence between Jews of Elephantine and Meroe (south Egypt-Kush) and the ancient kingdom of Sabah, located in both banks of the Red Sea, -with stepped migrations waves to the land- and transferred to the Quara region when the Nilo waterfall begin<br /> at the North of The Tana lake for preserve religion life ; It is extraordinary to know that the months description and Jewish celebrations have a clear prop, in the Hebrew language that they must have known in former times and that they lost except these liturgics words by oral tradition into Quara Cushitic tongue or including in "liturgy Geez" -very related to Hebrew, but a dead language today, with only liturgy use- and the Amharic Semitic spoken language, or the Agaw Cushitic "Quara", (Quara was the region where Jewish tradition, coming from these two vias, the Elephantine and The Sabah Kingdom, was kept). Spliting also the speaking tongue from the sacro liturgyc language like was common in Jewish tradition.<br />If the Ashkenazim with only 1200 years ancient, likely born in massive coming from Alexandria Egypt –first in number- and the Levant –second in number and before in times towards II century AE- To Central Italy in VII century AE and after the North and the East of Europe, they possess maternal mitochondrial markers mtDNA L1,L2 (4%) from Abyssinia, and the sibling N1 and M linked with L3 from Abyssinia – Ethiopia and Eritrea also Somalia-, this proves the existence of Abyssinian people in Israel or, it proves the fact that the former Israelite people had Abyssinian numerous masculine markers -E3b etc.- as well enough known, as and feminine markers like L1L2 etc., showing a feedback between people into Ethiopia and Israel in ancient times. <br />Remember that the Ethiopians in whole are linking with Semitics languish, traditions and genes also with the Horn of Africa; and the Ethiopians Jews are very close to Ethiopians Christians Amhara and others Semitic people of Abyssinia.<br />The Greek, as far as my theory, had seen that singularity in two ancient Jewish communities about IV century BC, one in the banks of the Red sea, from there, perhaps, the famous Greek legends of Andromeda about the Ethiopian kings of Jaffa (Joppe) – nowadays seacoast of Israel-. Come, in a mixture of religions and traditions, and the other Jewish community in Israel and Judaea according to the times. Also Sambation - also Sabath one- legend about the Jews living in the Nile falls. The find of the Adulis Stone in 1960 – near to Asmara - with inscriptions is a display from a king (likely a Melik Jew king) towards the Ptolemy IV Philopator Faraon, III century BC. All I wrote is Supported in current archeological and genetics studies.horaciohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08177107320272273468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-15761500933381285762010-10-29T23:50:25.772+03:002010-10-29T23:50:25.772+03:00Is that list open to public and where?
Its a &quo...Is that list open to public and where?<br /><br />Its a "google docs" document where project members can write backgrounds.<br /><br />Its seperated in 23andMe members and FTDNA members.<br /><br />https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1BesUZ4T0mTczn-H5kommfYfI57Rzbba4OuYK_2uQOxY&hl=de#Fantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969348276219179258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-82547436648054475762010-10-29T20:55:18.753+03:002010-10-29T20:55:18.753+03:00looked on the project member list
Is that list op...<i>looked on the project member list</i><br /><br />Is that list open to public and where?Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-67495365225994356702010-10-29T20:32:06.974+03:002010-10-29T20:32:06.974+03:00"I think Polako should use more Greek samples..."I think Polako should use more Greek samples (preferably Greeks from different parts of Greece, including Anatolian Greeks) in his studies."<br /><br />The problem is, if there is no Greeks who either tested or are willing to send their raw-data profiles, then you dont get them.<br /><br />There is a thread in the FTDNA Forum and the 23andME Forums about this project, that anyone who wants to join, can join and send in their profiles.<br /><br />I also ordered a 23andMe kit now, because it seems to work better with that, plus, there seem much more Europeans.<br /><br />GR1 (the one in the map) is from Xios (father) and Evia (mother) btw. *looked on the project member list*Fantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969348276219179258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-58193128065267053042010-10-29T16:40:55.658+03:002010-10-29T16:40:55.658+03:00I think Polako should use more Greek samples (pref...I think Polako should use more Greek samples (preferably Greeks from different parts of Greece, including Anatolian Greeks) in his studies.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-6393230005940957302010-10-29T11:23:07.669+03:002010-10-29T11:23:07.669+03:00I noticthed that the 0.1% northeast Asian in Spani...<i>I noticthed that the 0.1% northeast Asian in Spaniards from the chart does not show up in the bar graph.I know I should be able to see 1/10 of a percent on the bar graph since I can see the 0.1% east Asian in the CEU.</i><br /><br />Probably the chart was done with the raw numbers, while the table is rounded in the first decimal point.<br /><br />The East Asian in Utahns is:<br /><br />1.321400e-03<br /><br />And, the Northeast Asian in Spaniards is:<br /><br />0.0008084167<br /><br />Both round to 0.001 or 0.1% but the former 63% higher than the latter.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-24443992096066502402010-10-29T02:04:35.173+03:002010-10-29T02:04:35.173+03:00hmm. OK, I have all these 3 big European clusters ...hmm. OK, I have all these 3 big European clusters from Polakos K12 in one picture.<br /><br />As I have expected, the mediteranean and middle east clusters united. The result however is worth to be called "mediteranean" as its just that: it surounds the mediteranean sea.<br /><br />That "WEST Eurasian" cluster has a pretty interesting shape.<br /><br />http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/381/threebigclusters.jpgFantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969348276219179258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-32524367518774206882010-10-28T11:20:38.794+03:002010-10-28T11:20:38.794+03:00@dienekes
I noticthed that the 0.1% northeast Asi...@dienekes<br /><br />I noticthed that the 0.1% northeast Asian in Spaniards from the chart does not show up in the bar graph.I know I should be able to see 1/10 of a percent on the bar graph since I can see the 0.1% east Asian in the CEU.<br /><br />I'm sure the tiny NE Asian element in Spaniards is just noise but I wanted to know if the chart or the bar graph was wrong on that detail.princenuadhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02165977957244158593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-87051000783761442972010-10-28T10:23:05.217+03:002010-10-28T10:23:05.217+03:00Hmm.
He did a new multi-dimensional-scaling with G...Hmm.<br />He did a new multi-dimensional-scaling with Greeks (now 2)<br /><br />http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6810/europe12labeled2.pngFantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969348276219179258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-28450336583026910432010-10-28T03:46:35.303+03:002010-10-28T03:46:35.303+03:00"Anything about the portuguese in this study?..."Anything about the portuguese in this study?"<br /><br />Its 3 of them.<br /><br />Their averages:<br /><br />Northern European (Lithuania): 48% (47,48,49)<br />Mediteranean (Sardinia): 29% (33,27,29)<br />WEST-Eurasian (Pakistan): 13% (12,15,11)<br />North-African (Mozabite): 6% (5,6,8)<br />West-African (Yoruba): 2% (1,3,2)<br /><br />The first has 2% NORTH-Eurasian (Yakut), the others 0%Fantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969348276219179258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-5339764676457921622010-10-28T00:31:46.149+03:002010-10-28T00:31:46.149+03:00Anything about the portuguese in this study?
Best...Anything about the portuguese in this study?<br /><br />Best regardsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-457599386570132412010-10-27T22:26:53.241+03:002010-10-27T22:26:53.241+03:00"I'm still not sure what the black is but..."I'm still not sure what the black is but almost all the black populations are exactly the ones you have."<br /><br />Exactly.<br /><br />Numbers in black are from various scientific gathered profiles.<br /><br />Numbers in red are project members that send him their profiles. Some of these base on only a single person (like Ukraine and Greece for example.<br /><br />I also made another mistake.<br />The Portuguise must be red, since its a project member.<br /><br />AND...I did it again...<br />"Pakistanis "East Eurasian""----> WEST Eurasian... :(<br /><br />I seem to have a serious problem with calling something east of myself WEST. He he heFantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969348276219179258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-20567772562615133162010-10-27T20:07:04.825+03:002010-10-27T20:07:04.825+03:00Also does anyone have more detailed analysis of th...Also does anyone have more detailed analysis of the Swiss population as a whole? I am also curious about the German Swiss separately and wonder where they belong in Europe.princenuadhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02165977957244158593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-57456065270573708822010-10-27T20:04:04.981+03:002010-10-27T20:04:04.981+03:00"What's the difference between numbers in..."What's the difference between numbers in red and in black?"<br /><br />I'm still not sure what the black is but almost all the black populations are exactly the ones you have.<br /><br />"It's hard to swallow that in Spain the "Northern European" element is the majority (51%). It'd take a lot of Celts and Visigoths to make it so."<br /><br />How would you know? Do you know when, where, and how the north european component evolved and how it spread? I would actually like to know, but I don't think you could give evidence for the certainty required to know not only that 51% would be unusual but that if true it must have come from the Celts and Visigoths.<br /><br />Fanty's map shows NE to be much more diffuse and has less dramatic drops in percentage than dienekes' (largely due to the differences in Sardinia and Turkey). I hope dienekes' is correct as it seems much more interesting.princenuadhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02165977957244158593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-29350505195213524612010-10-27T19:39:54.228+03:002010-10-27T19:39:54.228+03:00"Or 39% in Sardinia vs. my 0.8%"
The ot..."Or 39% in Sardinia vs. my 0.8%"<br /><br />The other calculation, wiich he did with FTDNA members included has less than 0.5% northern European in Sardinians and Basques both.<br /><br />it looked like this:<br />(it was a K7 and limited to Europe, middle east and northern African populations)<br /><br />http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7219/balticnortherneuropean.jpg<br /><br />But there had been different "anchor" populations.<br /><br />In the one he made for FTDNA users the anchors that mainly affected most EUROPEANS had been:<br /><br />Lithanians ("Baltic"), Chuvash("Ural"), Georgians ("Anatolia-Caucasus"), Saudi Arabians ("Middle East"), Sardinians ("Mediteraneans") and "Basque" ("Atlantic").<br /><br />Now its totaly different.<br />All Europeans are only affected by:<br /><br />Lithuanians "Northern European"<br />Sardinians "Mediteranean"<br />Pakistanis "East Eurasian"<br /><br />yes ok, some 1-4%ish North Asian and African sometimes.<br /><br />The effect had been that "Northern European" seemed to unite with what was "Atlantic" and "Mediteranean" united with former "Middle East".<br /><br />The new "East Eurasian" spreads almost like former "Ural", but with greater numbers involved.Fantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969348276219179258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-30882769620003181602010-10-27T18:48:19.077+03:002010-10-27T18:48:19.077+03:00After all Spain has 70 % of R-P312
R-P312 is not ...<i>After all Spain has 70 % of R-P312</i><br /><br />R-P312 is not northern European specific.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-59334290419300428792010-10-27T18:19:16.544+03:002010-10-27T18:19:16.544+03:00Not surprised at all about the 52% north-european ...Not surprised at all about the 52% north-european of spaniards. After all Spain has 70 % of R-P312 and the main ancestry of spaniards were the Celt-Iberians. And Spain has the lowest middl-eastern input of all southern Europe. It's a myth that mediterranean are genetically similar.GrIQhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02907176579081773431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-12831914668874717282010-10-27T18:07:23.656+03:002010-10-27T18:07:23.656+03:00Or 39% in Sardinia vs. my 0.8%Or 39% in Sardinia vs. my 0.8%Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-68186226528757623192010-10-27T18:04:59.165+03:002010-10-27T18:04:59.165+03:00What's the difference between numbers in red a...<i>What's the difference between numbers in red and in black?<br /></i><br /><br />Nevermind, it seems the numbers in red are from 23andMe members. It's hard to swallow that in Spain the "Northern European" element is the majority (51%). It'd take a lot of Celts and Visigoths to make it so.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-35022077871352354472010-10-27T18:03:14.843+03:002010-10-27T18:03:14.843+03:00I just finnished putting the averages for "No...<i>I just finnished putting the averages for "Northern European" onto a map.</i><br /><br />What's the difference between numbers in red and in black?Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-16747288264366934052010-10-27T17:55:07.035+03:002010-10-27T17:55:07.035+03:00I just NOW realize, I missed some posts.
"Fa...I just NOW realize, I missed some posts.<br /><br />"Fanty, you wrote that the single Greek member has 33% Northern European component in Polako's ADMIXTURE analysis. What about other South European populations, and also French? Also what about West Asian, North African, South Asian, Central Asian and Siberian populations? Thanks in advance."<br /><br />I just finnished putting the averages for "Northern European" onto a map.<br /><br />http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9031/northerneuropek12neu.jpg<br /><br />Some rather strange things show up. Like... the French Basque having a higher northern average than the 3 Germans. Or the French.<br /><br />Also, the quiet high "northen" values on the Iberian peninsular compared to the Italian peninsular.<br /><br />Hmm. I mean, ok... there is a strange mtDNA connection between Iberia and the Baltic region. With H aswell as with V. Even the Origin of U5 (over 50% in European Hunter/Gatherer corpses) is thought to be Iberia.Fantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969348276219179258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-33051676863824065342010-10-27T13:51:24.650+03:002010-10-27T13:51:24.650+03:00I would have liked Dienekes to have included Russi...<i>I would have liked Dienekes to have included Russians. I assume that their East Asian component is mainly NE Asian. Which Russians are they anyway?</i><br /><br />They are ethnic Russians from Vologda, and I have included them in many previous analyses where they invariably turn out to be part N European + minority NE Asian primarily.<br /><br /><i>Does the Cypriot set include Turkish Cypriots or only Greek Cypriots? Is it possible to compare these two groups?</i><br /><br />The are sampled in the Republic of Cyprus, hence probably only Greek Cypriots. If any Turkish Cypriots want to send me their data, I'll be more than happy to include them in the Dodecad project.<br /><br /><i>On the Indo-European "invasion" / "settlement" question - All I1 descend from a single ancestor who lived less than 5000 years ago. http://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml That implies that the rest of north central European males were wiped out by IE invaders.</i><br /><br />You are assuming that the rest of N/C European males (non-I1 ones) are descended from Indo-European patrilineages. <br /><br />If you equate Proto-Indo-Europeans with steppe groups (I don't), then the physical anthropological evidence is pretty clear that they did not penetrate far into Central Europe. They may have modified Central Europeans, but the local Neolithic element was more important.<br /><br />There is simply no evidence for massive replacement of populations in Europe as a result of steppe migrations.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-18097428315380107692010-10-27T13:09:46.048+03:002010-10-27T13:09:46.048+03:00Additional thought on that "West Eurasian&quo...Additional thought on that "West Eurasian" from Polako:<br /><br />The spread reminds me strongly of the suposed microsatelite diversity of R1a1a. In the way of: So more of that, so higher the diversity in R1a1a haplotypes. But maybe thats coincidence. -.-Fantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969348276219179258noreply@blogger.com