tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post5992154103239977664..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Aboriginal genome analysis and ethicsDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-11566717638604197402011-10-01T11:26:19.564+03:002011-10-01T11:26:19.564+03:00"In other words, concerns about threats to th..."In other words, concerns about threats to the credibility of their fairytales, which are called in polite speech religious beliefs, mythology, legends or local lore" <br /><br />As I understand the situation that is exactly the problem. Australian Aborigines do not wish it shown they came from anywhere other than Australia. Luckily I live in New Zealand where the indigenous people are as keen as anyone to know their pre-history. Mind you, their own myths state they arrived in New Zealand from elsewhere. <br /><br />"For a long time Aborigines where treated as second class in Australia" <br /><br />Very much so, even as late as the 1980s when I lived there. I was stunned at the difference between Australia and New Zealand. and New Zealand's relationship with its indigenes is hardly perfect.terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-42960154519828690282011-09-29T17:42:45.457+03:002011-09-29T17:42:45.457+03:00Ethesists and "concerned" others will al...Ethesists and "concerned" others will always have a point to make about such things, as did so many moralists and rule makers in the past. Not to worry! Regardless of any law or ethical standard of conduct, if there's money in it somewhere, someone will deliver the goods. Devistate a tropical rain forest for a few ounces of gold, smuggle in rare birds by hiding them in little bags under clothing, kill a rhino for it's horn, blow up a mosque full of people to get into heaven and earn a few bucks for your poor family, hay the list is like forever long. Rules are fine. But try not to make ones that can't be enforced, it's a real waste of time and hot air. People will do anything for a buck! Always have, always will. But should we all just give up? No, I guess that would make things even worse. What a world!Pascvakshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08311382875179534062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-25871424368760588722011-09-29T15:29:02.879+03:002011-09-29T15:29:02.879+03:00The Andrew Bolt case is relevant here. He was rece...The Andrew Bolt case is relevant here. He was recently convicted of violating the Australian Racial Discrimination Act for writing about how mixed race Australians exploit Australian laws. It's not clear what penalties he faces.<br /><br />It should be noted that the law applies to any public space, which includes the entire internet and specifically this blog.<br /><br />Any anthropologist who offends at least one aborigine can be prosecuted, perhaps even in abstentia.<br /><br />And you thought the brouhaha over Kennewick Man was fun.<br /><br />Australian blogs cannot even discuss the issues and are being heavily self-censured. Even the comments.sykes.1https://www.blogger.com/profile/10954672321945289871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-36534087836313789692011-09-29T14:02:47.524+03:002011-09-29T14:02:47.524+03:00I think many "Aborigines" are worried no...I think many "Aborigines" are worried now genetics can tell how much real Aboriginal they have.<br />I am not talking Northern tribes, where this is evident, but some city groups, which have "adopted" many people with questionable native roots. Now they are worried their benefits could be taken away on this basis.genefanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09735643231654122583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-76719594685989540882011-09-29T12:04:39.992+03:002011-09-29T12:04:39.992+03:00The collection of the samples is part of a history...<i>The collection of the samples is part of a history of treating Aboriginal people as less than human and, of course, the scientific understanding of the nineteenth and early twentieth century assigned the bottom rung of humanity to Australian Aborigines.</i><br /><br />Samples have been collected from almost every known group on the planet. I really don't see what is exceptional in the case of Australian aborigines. It's not like they have been especially targeted for sample collection above and beyond many other human groups.<br /><br /><i>I personally would like to see a range of samples from Aboriginal Australians be included amongst all the other ethnic groups studied but I also think that it's important to build a consensus in favour of such testing amongst Aboriginal people and for it to tangible deliver benefits to them. There's a massive life expectancy gap between Aboriginal people and other Australians which needs to be reduced.</i><br /><br />I object to such a utilitarian view. We don't undestand most of the genetic causes of diseases such as diabetes even in the most studied of groups, such as Americans. This is the well-known problem of the "missing heritability". Concrete applications of genomics to health problems are rather the exception than the rule, and most diseases have barely been touched by genomics. In short, getting even a full genome sequence has, at present, very little medical benefits, even if you are a Western European.<br /><br />So, it's impossible to promise tangible benefits to people, when such benefits haven't been forthcoming even in well-studied groups. Moreover, we won't know whether such benefits are to be had unless we actually do the DNA collection and analysis.<br /><br />Moreover, I object to the notion that tangible benefits are the only concrete way to involve AA. First of all, a lot of people would not expect any benefits for themselves. Many people are interested in helping non-profit science even if it doesn't benefit them. Also, learning about one's past is a tangible benefit, since people aren't just interested about medical stuff, but also about their past.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-85863727173467664212011-09-29T06:19:05.208+03:002011-09-29T06:19:05.208+03:00Behind these concerns is a recognition of the genu...Behind these concerns is a recognition of the genuine distrust that many Aboriginal people have because of the methods and uses to which scientific research into their communities have been used in the past. Over the past couple of decades many Aboriginal groups have put a great deal of effort and had some success in repatriating human remains from museums and institutions around the world for burial and other traditional disposal in their homelands.<br /><br />http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/people/aboriginal-remains.html<br /><br />The collection of the samples is part of a history of treating Aboriginal people as less than human and, of course, the scientific understanding of the nineteenth and early twentieth century assigned the bottom rung of humanity to Australian Aborigines.<br /><br />My understanding is that contemporary research protocols try to build in reciprocal benefits for those studied as well as for the scientific community. For example Aboriginal people suffer from extremely high rates of diabetes and, in part, this seems connected to the absence of genetic adaptations to Western diets. So I could imagine that a research project that could assist in the understanding of and approach to this problem would be accepted.<br /><br />I don't think that Australians in general have yet embraced genetic testing on a large scale for understanding their origins. In particular I can't imagine Aboriginal people seeing much benefit for themselves in such tests. Aboriginal people have been in Australia for such a long period that none of their origin stories have them coming from anywhere else than here.<br /><br />I personally would like to see a range of samples from Aboriginal Australians be included amongst all the other ethnic groups studied but I also think that it's important to build a consensus in favour of such testing amongst Aboriginal people and for it to tangible deliver benefits to them. There's a massive life expectancy gap between Aboriginal people and other Australians which needs to be reduced.<br /><br />Having said this, I have not looked into the circumstances of the genome research published recently and have no comment to make about it.Amanda Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05997180528147657311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-30735441553570799312011-09-28T22:11:32.484+03:002011-09-28T22:11:32.484+03:00In the case of aboriginal Australians a lot of fol...In the case of aboriginal Australians a lot of folks deem it necessary to protect them from_???.<br />For a long time Aborigines where treated as second class in Australia, so anything that could mark them as different or outstanding is rejected by politically correct scientists. Their rejection of genetical studies is hard to understand in the face of studies being made of about any community in the world, starting from San to Siberian to almost all South American tribes.Xaverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00181732387549360261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-18046829182661503712011-09-28T18:32:48.962+03:002011-09-28T18:32:48.962+03:00Unfortunately this anti-intellectual agenda is not...Unfortunately this anti-intellectual agenda is not restricted to some cultural anthropologists. The other two critics cited are van Holst Pelekaan, a geneticist and Greeley, a bioethicist.Charles Nydorfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16291667302870991631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-22413631510495733762011-09-28T18:14:07.826+03:002011-09-28T18:14:07.826+03:00Is this sample the first we have of an attested fu...Is this sample the first we have of an attested full-blooded Aboriginal? If so, this is momentous! Shame on the know-nothings who parade as More Sensitive Than Thou.Auditor George Danoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15451291978096556616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-20878242141319930662011-09-28T17:45:28.050+03:002011-09-28T17:45:28.050+03:00These days, cultural anthropologists are on the sa...These days, cultural anthropologists are on the same level as Ark hunters and Ancient Alien theorists. Why does anyone take them seriously?Milford E Smiffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09207611457843556190noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-25466199841812642192011-09-28T15:54:42.034+03:002011-09-28T15:54:42.034+03:00but sparked concerns that indigenous peoples were ...<i>but sparked concerns that indigenous peoples were being subjected to neocolonial 'bioprospecting'</i><br /><br />In other words, concerns about threats to the credibility of their fairytales, which are called in polite speech religious beliefs, mythology, legends or local lore.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.com