tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post5967138255064277197..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Digging deeper into East African human Y chromosome lineagesDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-18130797952407433342011-02-15T18:52:21.344+02:002011-02-15T18:52:21.344+02:00Returning to the main thread here, I'd like to...Returning to the main thread here, I'd like to request some information on the Omotic people from the Ethiopian area. These are such groups as the : the Sadama (aka Sidamo), the Wolaita, the Hadiyya, the Gamo, the Gedeo, and several others. Are there any studies reporting any of these Omotic groups? Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-78914672524079299712010-03-17T22:47:14.107+02:002010-03-17T22:47:14.107+02:00I'll leave it to Andrew to describe the lingui...I'll leave it to Andrew to describe the linguistic relationship of West African languages. That seems to be his area.<br /><br />Go ahead and fight with a word. I'm happy with "related", if you don't like "homogeneous".<br /><br />Could we get back to discussing Andrews points about Niger-Congo languages?<br /><br />And by the way, that kente clothe you were so fascinated with as a child is the sine qua non symbol of the Ashanti:<br /><br />http://art-smart.ci.manchester.ct.us/<br />fiber-kente/kente.htmlMarniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-20552293916139763352010-03-17T22:19:50.649+02:002010-03-17T22:19:50.649+02:00Marnie said:
Although you disagree, the Ashante r...Marnie said:<br /><i><br />Although you disagree, the Ashante represent only one of many linguistically and culturally related West African people.<br /></i><br /><br />NO - West Africans are genetically, linguistically and culturally heterogeneous. <br /><br />There is far more genetic, linguistic and cultural diversity in a single country like Nigeria, than in all Europe together.<br /><br />Start reading here:<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigeria<br /><br />Ethnicities > 250<br />Languages = 521<br /><br />These are just simple facts, not politics.pconroyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10312469574812832771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-80212503483683149682010-03-17T22:09:12.501+02:002010-03-17T22:09:12.501+02:00correction:
I believe that we are all aware of th...correction:<br /><br />I believe that we are all aware of the limited genetic resistance to malaria that Africans have developed. You needn't remind us.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-19228213598627393452010-03-17T22:07:17.417+02:002010-03-17T22:07:17.417+02:00pconroy,
I'm sorry, but this is not a product...pconroy,<br /><br />I'm sorry, but this is not a productive argument.<br /><br />For the purposes of the discussion in this thread, let's just say that the Ashante, and other dominant African groups, controlled trade routes from the West African to the north and east. They traded slaves, gold and likely many other items.<br /><br />I believe that we are all aware of limited genetic resistance that Africans have developed. You needed remind us.<br /><br />Although you disagree, the Ashante represent only one of many linguistically and culturally related West African people.<br /><br />Please take your political discussion elsewhere. This is an anthropology blog, not a morality blog.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-17517983903941569292010-03-17T22:07:17.418+02:002010-03-17T22:07:17.418+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-35902940942589919022010-03-17T21:40:36.217+02:002010-03-17T21:40:36.217+02:00Marnie,
Maybe I shouldn't have used the word ...Marnie,<br /><br />Maybe I shouldn't have used the word "Romantic", maybe "Deceitful" would be more appropriate - but I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.<br /><br />You describe the Ashante as Gold traders - like they were jewelers or something - they were SLAVE traders. Gold was/is a form of currency to them and many other people.<br /><br />The Ashante knew fully well what they were doing, and no I don't recall any tradition of freeing slaves in Africa. African groups like the Ibo, didn't enslave other tribes, but rather sold criminals of their own tribe into slavery. Slavery is still practised in the Sudan today, and in the Central African Republic and elsewhere in Africa, and it is a lifelong institution.<br /><br />I mentioned Carribean Irishmen and Gin, by way of demonstrating:<br />1. Europeans didn't survive in Africa<br />2. Slavery of Africans in the Caribbean was much more benign than that of the Irish, as they were a more valuable and thus expensive commodity, and needed to be looked after.<br /><br />West Africans carry the alleles for Siclle Cell Anemia, which in a heterozygous state confers decreased risk of developing Malaria.<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sickle-cell_disease<br />Today of course you don't need to quaff copious amounts of quinine, as there is such a thing as Anti-Malarial drugs<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimalarial_drug<br />My wife found them very helpful, as a field officer for the CDC in Uganda a decades ago.<br /><br />Finally, that West Africans have pan-African economic institutions says nothing about their culture, or values - only about their proximity.pconroyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10312469574812832771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-60174093944797100702010-03-17T21:06:40.077+02:002010-03-17T21:06:40.077+02:00Dear pconroy,
I would mention that it was you who...Dear pconroy,<br /><br />I would mention that it was you who challenged me and inferred that a comment I made about the Ashanti was "romantic."<br /><br />I'm not interested in getting into a political discussion about the rightness or wrongness of peoples that employed slavery. Slavery is obviously morally odious, but as I already stated, slavery existed broadly in the ancient world.<br /><br />As to this comment:<br />"My point being that without the Ashante and other "mercantile" tribes, there would be no commercial African slave trade - as the Europeans died like flies in Africa, before the advent of quinine and such."<br /><br />Had European ships not been waiting off the malaria free coast, as willing buyers, slaves taken by the Ashanti would have been traded within the African economy and been used for labor within the African economy. Many would have ultimately won their freedom, as was the custom. Again, this form of slavery existed broadly in the ancient world.<br /><br />Most Ashante had no idea that the slaves they sold to Europeans would cross an ocean and be sold into a circumstance that they could never have envisioned. <br /><br />I'm not sure what Caribbean Irishmen and Gin and Tonic have to do with a discussion about ancient trading routes in African.<br /><br />And by the way, West Africans are somewhat resistant to malaria, but not entirely. Malaria is still the number one killer of children in West Africa.<br /><br />And somehow, my mother, father, brother and I managed to survive three years in Ghana, and several bouts of malaria. I don't remeber drinking a lot of Gin and Tonic.<br /><br />I'm not challenging your knowledge about slavery as practised in the recent past. Just suggesting that the use of slavery in West Africa follows a pattern that existed in ancient Greece, Rome, the Middle East, and India, and even the Americas.<br /><br />As to your last post, I said similar, not identical. West Aficans themselves have numerous pan West African institutions such as the The Economic Community Of West African States (ECOWAS), which reflect their self recognized similarities.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-30279858593435399002010-03-17T20:35:18.220+02:002010-03-17T20:35:18.220+02:00Marnie said:
West Africa is not only linguistical...Marnie said:<br /><i><br />West Africa is not only linguistically homogeneous, it is also quite musically homogeneous. The artistic style of folkart and dress also seems to be closely connected.<br /></i><br /><br />This is also NOT true, and displays a lack of understanding of the region, it's history, cultures, religions and folklore. It displays a Eurocentric bias, where all West Africans and their culture is seen as similar - to an outsiders view.<br /><br />For the record I studied African history in college, and had an aunt who lived in Nigeria (Makurdi on the Jos Plateau), for 25 years, before being kicked out by the military Junta.<br /><br />As a kid I wore colorful "Kente cloth" type shirts brought back by my aunt from Nigeria - different ones for Ibo, Hausa and Fulani.pconroyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10312469574812832771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-49810055826460702452010-03-17T20:19:55.313+02:002010-03-17T20:19:55.313+02:00Marnie,
My point being that without the Ashante a...Marnie,<br /><br />My point being that without the Ashante and other "mercantile" tribes, there would be no commercial African slave trade - as the Europeans died like flies in Africa, before the advent of quinine and such. Why do you think the British drank Gin and Tonic?<br />Gin because of a trade embargo on French wine during the 100 years war. Tonic because it is water plus quinine, and taken daily helps combat malaria:<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinine<br /><br />Why do you think West Africa was called "The White Man's Grave"<br /><br />I know a lot about slavery worldwide as a matter of fact. Why do you think the Caribbeans today don't look Irish, despite hundreds of thousands of Irish slaves being exported there? Answer: 80% were dead within 2 years due to disease and being ill adapted to the climate, so they were a bad proposition for a slave owner. Consequently Irish slaves were worked to death, as it was felt it was better to get as much out of them before they inevitably died.<br /><br />You need to read a little more, before you think of challenging me...pconroyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10312469574812832771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-2785552667942440192010-03-17T20:07:06.260+02:002010-03-17T20:07:06.260+02:00correction:
And it is true that the Ashanti are kn...correction:<br />And it is true that the Ashanti are known to have negotiated with and played off the Portuguese, Dutch and British.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-36804633409689381702010-03-17T20:03:23.014+02:002010-03-17T20:03:23.014+02:00Dear PConroy,
I'm sorry if you think my notio...Dear PConroy,<br /><br />I'm sorry if you think my notions of the Ashanti or Ashante are "romantic." I believe I said that it is well known that they dominated the control of a trade route.<br /><br />You're writing off a people because slavery was an aspect of their society and their economy.<br /><br />Perhaps you haven't read much history.<br /><br />Slavery was part and parcel of almost all ancient stratified societies.<br /><br />As in Ancient Greece, people who were held as slaves by the Ashanti were often captives from adjacent tribes, but also those who had an unpaid debt, for example. A slave could often earn their way out of slavery.<br /><br />And it is true that the Ashanti are known to have negotiated with and play off against the Portuguese, Dutch and British. Romantic or not, it reflects political savvy.<br /><br />Romantic?<br /><br />Well, I guess we're pretty "romantic" about European and American history as well. Oh, and let's not talk about tolerating illegal, sub minimum wage labor, because it makes our lettuce cheaper.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-47595710013325572812010-03-17T20:03:23.015+02:002010-03-17T20:03:23.015+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-15600547924859888252010-03-17T08:52:31.071+02:002010-03-17T08:52:31.071+02:00Marnie,
African cattle for the most part have mtD...Marnie,<br /><br />African cattle for the most part have mtDNA from Africa or the Middle East, with Y-DNA from South Asia. It seems that the Zebu cattle were introduced into Africa thousands of years ago, either directly or by boat across the Indian ocean.pconroyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10312469574812832771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-29834429094702982812010-03-17T08:48:23.127+02:002010-03-17T08:48:23.127+02:00Marnie,
How romantic your notions of Africa are?!...Marnie,<br /><br />How romantic your notions of Africa are?!<br /><br />The Ashante being one of the main slaving tribe in Africa, rose to power by raiding other tribes and capturing men, women and children, which they then force marched to ports to be traded for Gold...<br /><br />I knew an Ashante guy in New York, and his first name was Bossman, I asked him why he had chosen that name and not his "African" name, he said that he was a chief's son and he, his father, grandfather going back centuries were called Bossman. Of course a famous Dutch slave trader in Ghana in the 1700's was Johannes Bossman, and my colleagues family probably adopted his name as theirs.pconroyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10312469574812832771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-78828909566607219542010-03-17T08:11:24.684+02:002010-03-17T08:11:24.684+02:00Andrew, yes, I think you're onto something.
...Andrew, yes, I think you're onto something. <br /><br />I remember reading somewhere that the Ashanti have dominated a trading route to the North and East, across the Sahara, for millenia, and that their power was maintained by trading gold to the north and east.<br /><br />Another bit that rings true with your idea is cattle. You said:<br />"Also Nilo-Saharan cattle were a Near Eastern, not an African domesticate." <br /><br />In West Africa today, the only cattle are ones that have a hump in their back. This has something to do with cattle of Middle Eastern origin not having sufficient malaria resistance.<br /><br />West Africa is not only linguistically homogeneous, it is also quite musically homogeneous. The artistic style of folkart and dress also seems to be closely connected.<br /><br />Most West Africans recognize this themselves.<br /><br />I really think you're onto something.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-17110017220300313452010-03-16T23:07:22.251+02:002010-03-16T23:07:22.251+02:00"I'm puzzled about your comments on the B..."I'm puzzled about your comments on the Berbers:<br /><br />'Berbers, who are the oldest strata of Afro-Asiatic languages in Northwest Africa arrived there around 1000 BC, and both this date and the changing climate of the Sahara argues that an early group would have been the domesticators of the African Sahel package of crops, probably proto-Nilo-Saharans, proto-Niger-Congoese, or a progenitor of both.'"<br /><br />In timeline form:<br /><br />* Sahara habitable 8000 BC-4000 BC<br />* Sorghum and Pearl Millet domesticated (in the case of Pearl Millet partially in now uninhabitable parts of the Sahara) 6000 BC<br />* Berber presence in Northwest Africa 1000 BC<br /><br />If Berbers are the first Afro-Asiatic language speakers in Northwest Africa (as seems likely), and Afro-Asiatic was never a leading language of West Africa (as seems likely), then Afro-Asiatic speakers did not domesticate pearl millet and were probably not part of the culture that were part of the package of domesticated crops that followed that included Sorghum and Pearl Millet.<br /><br />This leaves Niger-Congo speakers or Nilo-Saharan speakers, or a common shared ancestor, as plausible candidates for the peoples who should be associated with this complex of crops. <br /><br />After reviewing the articles cited and the Current Biology paper by Tishkoff from a few original posts ago on this blog, it looks like the Niger-Congo people and not the Nilo-Saharans were associated with the Sahel crops, which is also a fit with the E haplotype evidence and archeological dates for the Nilo-Saharans. Also Nilo-Saharan cattle were a Near Eastern, not an African domesticate. (Incidentally, Nilo-Saharans also continued to practice river fishing as an important part of their subsistance).<br /><br />This leaves Niger-Congo as the culture to associate with the pearl millet/sorghum package of Sahel crops. Thus, the dominance of Niger-Congo languages in West Africa may be evidence of a food production using sorghum and pearl millet as core crops based expansion ca. 6000 BC, of which we have no trace in the historical record and little archeology due to a lack of research to date (and poor preservation conditions), as a wave that would rhyme well documented the Bantu expansion 3000 years later. <br /><br />This hypothetical Niger-Congo expansion would be similar to the expansion of farming seen at about the same time in Europe, and the language expansions seen in Asia thousands of years later. <br /><br />It seems likely to have been, given the prevalence of certain E haplotypes in West Africa, a demic expansion in non-tropical areas, just as the farmer expansion in Europe replaced much of the prior hunter-gatherer population. I'm skeptical that Niger-Congo languages would be as similar as they are without that kind of relatively recent expansion.<br /><br />If that much of the analysis holds, then the remaining question is, "where did the Niger-Congo language family expansion start?" In other words, "where is the Niger-Congo Urheimat?"<br /><br />If Kordofani is the oldest language stratum in the Nuba Mountains, that puts Niger-Congo languages very far east at a very early date, and argues for the Nuba Mountains (or at least someplace on the Eastern edge of the Niger-Congo language area) as an Urheimat for Niger-Congo languages. The location is also attractive because it is close to the natural eastern boundary of wild pearl millet and the natural western boundary of sorghum, allowing for a synthesis into an expansionist farming culture somewhere around there. It is also attractive because the lack of E halpotype diversity in the most Western part of Africa suggests colonization with strong founder effects rather than an origin there. And, it is attractive because it puts the formative area for all of the major African language families geographically close to each other fairly near the presumptive place of origin of modern humans. All that, however, is just speculation.Andrew Oh-Willekehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537151821869153861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-83775991839146570222010-03-16T07:55:17.432+02:002010-03-16T07:55:17.432+02:00Andrew, thanks for the great references on pearl m...Andrew, thanks for the great references on pearl millet and sorghum domestication. It's interesting that the estimated range of pearl millet domestication, from Mali to the boundary with Cameroon, exactly covers the range today of West Africa. That region is still quite culturally and linguistically homogeneous. <br /> <br />I'm puzzled about your comments on the Berbers:<br /><br />"Berbers, who are the oldest strata of Afro-Asiatic languages in Northwest Africa arrived there around 1000 BC, and both this date and the changing climate of the Sahara argues that an early group would have been the domesticators of the African Sahel package of crops, probably proto-Nilo-Saharans, proto-Niger-Congoese, or a progenitor of both."<br /><br />And it would certainly be fascinating to date the linguistic relationship between Nilo-Saharan and Niger-Congo:<br /><br />"The genetic evidence is also suggestive of the possibility that Nilo-Saharan is a remote daughter language of Niger-Congo, but genetic dating is too fuzzy to establish with any accuracy linkage to the Sahel package of crops or an exact date from genetic evidence."<br /><br />I'm looking forward to more papers on the genetic prehistory of West Africa. That area is a personal favorite of mine. One observation I have about West Africa is that there must have been ancient habitation of the West African coast. West Africans who live along the coast are expert seamen, fishermen and divers. There are even free divers, who can jump into ten foot waves and fish for food for up to 5 minutes. Their fishing culture seems to be ancient.<br /><br />Thanks again for sharing this with us. I hope you'll post more.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-15051351664751027762010-03-16T07:55:17.433+02:002010-03-16T07:55:17.433+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-89284549054404250272010-03-15T18:47:39.115+02:002010-03-15T18:47:39.115+02:00Re: Sorghum domestication.
The dating of Sorghum ...Re: Sorghum domestication.<br /><br />The dating of Sorghum domestication according to sources cited <a href="http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/the-domestication-of-sorghum/" rel="nofollow">here</a> precedes the arrival of agriculture in Egypt, although it follows the domestication of wheat, barley and peas in the Fertile Cresent. <br /><br />Another piece of the "Sorghum package" of African Sahel crops, which is <a href="http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v81/n6/full/6884450a.html" rel="nofollow">native to the African Sahel</a> is pearl millet, although its wild range in West African. There is <a href="http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/80/3/203" rel="nofollow">debate</a> (also <a href="http://www.cababstractsplus.org/abstracts/Abstract.aspx?AcNo=19891605298" rel="nofollow">here</a>) over a single v. multiple domestication event for pearl millet, with <a href="http://test1.icrisat.org/PearlMillet/Taxonomy/pframe3.htm" rel="nofollow">recent publications favoring a single domestication</a> (and <a href="http://assets0.pubget.com/pdf/18504539.pdf" rel="nofollow">herE</a> in West Africa. One study suggests a location "eastern Mali and western<br />Niger" and a domestication around 6000 BC, around the same time as Sorghum. The distinct domestications and their location suggest that if Middle Easterners were involved, that the idea of domestication rather than the crops and associated civilization themselves, would have been the import. <br /><br />Berbers, who are the oldest strata of Afro-Asiatic languages in Northwest Africa arrived there around 1000 BC, and both this date and the changing climate of the Sahara argues that an early group would have been the domesticators of the African Sahel package of crops, probably proto-Nilo-Saharans, proto-Niger-Congoese, or a progenitor of both.<br /><br />Current <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E_(Y-DNA)#cite_note-5" rel="nofollow">halotype E distribution</a>, and the location of basal E* halotype and the E1a and E1b1a haloptype mostly in West Africa is suggestive of an emergence of E, E1a and E1b including E1b1 in West Africa with a mostly Nilo-Saharan E1b1b break from E1b1a from that lineage probably in Sudan, in line with the linguistic heartland of Nilo-Saharan. The timing of the break between E1b1a and E1b1b in the last 15,000 years is consistent with the margin of error with the formative time of Nilo-Saharan languages and peoples that date to more than 8,000 years ago. <br /><br />The genetic evidence is also suggestive of the possibility that Nilo-Saharan is a remote daughter language of Niger-Congo, but genetic dating is too fuzzy to establish with any accuracy linkage to the Sahel package of crops or an exact date from genetic evidence.Andrew Oh-Willekehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537151821869153861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-42732922127362836732010-03-15T06:16:25.259+02:002010-03-15T06:16:25.259+02:00"So there is a dilution of the Middle Eastern..."So there is a dilution of the Middle Eastern genotype, but maybe a replacement of the Phenotype. and eventually the male agriculturalist on the 'wave of advance' are substantially African by descent, but their Y-DNA is still Middle Eastern or more generally Eurasian". <br /><br />And much the same process presumably occurred much more widely. In fact the OoA is probably far more complicated than is usually assumed. Individual haplogroups move much further than other genes from the original populations containing the haplogroups, unless the particular genes are advantageous in themselves.terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-74601401253317805622010-03-14T04:24:08.661+02:002010-03-14T04:24:08.661+02:00There is no reason to believe that agriculturalist...There is no reason to believe that agriculturalists of Africa originally gained their agricultural abilities in the Middle East. <br /><br />Based on the estimated location of the domestication of sorghum, discussed in the Dogget paper which I reference above, it is likely that North East Africa, agriculturalism was discovered by Africans on the upper reaches of the Nile. (Sudan and Ethiopia)<br /><br />So I see no reason to necessarily assume that agriculturalism was introduced back into Africa by a small group of Eurasians carrying Y-DNA E.<br /><br />Again, the origin of the E agriculturalists could just as easily be African and could have occured on the upper reaches of the Nile. That's generally not considered to be the "Middle East."Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-58188602380690802162010-03-13T20:36:40.099+02:002010-03-13T20:36:40.099+02:00AFAIK whenever agriculture spread, it was via male...<i>AFAIK whenever agriculture spread, it was via male agriculturalists' sons moving to the hunter-gatherer frontier and starting new agricultural communities. So if Eurasian carrying Y-DNA E moved into the Sahara, then the Sahel region, then West Africa proper, the population would initially be Middle Eastern in genotype and phenotype, then with demic expansion and some assimilation of the daughters of hunter-gatherers, become more admixed. Moving to West Africa would favor selection for darker skin and other local adaptations picked up from the native Hunter-Gatherer substrate. So there is a dilution of the Middle Eastern genotype, but maybe a replacement of the Phenotype. and eventually the male agriculturalist on the "wave of advance" are substantially African by descent, but their Y-DNA is still Middle Eastern or more generally Eurasian.</i><br /><br />I concur. Also I think that Y-DNA is much less reflective of overall genetic origins and phenotype than mtDNA.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-80655304731229750432010-03-13T20:35:11.874+02:002010-03-13T20:35:11.874+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-39226197821228947572010-03-13T05:25:26.844+02:002010-03-13T05:25:26.844+02:00Andrew,
yeah! kim-chi, extra hot, yum!
Getting b...Andrew,<br /><br />yeah! kim-chi, extra hot, yum!<br /><br />Getting back to your thoughtful comments regarding Kordofan languages and Nilo-Saharan or Afro-Asiatic language speakers, I came across this interesting paper on the domestication of sorghum: "Sorghum history in relation to Ethiopia," H. Dogget. Maybe you've seen it. There's a scanned in copy on Google books. I won't put up the URL because it is horrifically long, but I think if you google "Plant genetic resources of Ethiopia," the Dogget article comes up on page 140.<br /><br />The article is full of details on sorghum domestication, probably in Ethiopia along the Nile.<br /><br />Thanks for your comments.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.com