tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post5550919029195715778..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Broad-faced men are more aggressiveDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-14540755550042110342009-10-19T12:36:58.088+03:002009-10-19T12:36:58.088+03:00@Kosmo
"Or second, this particular kind of j...@Kosmo<br /><br />"Or second, this particular kind of jaw is not an honest signal of temperament, but is instead found at a higher frequency among elite fighters because it confers some advantage in the octagon. (Perhaps this kind of jaw is less likely to break? Or is more able to absorb blows without transmitting the kinetic energy directly to the mastoid, and hence the skull, thereby, by some small percentage, preventing the number of knockouts a fighter might face. This in turn would increase both his liklihood of success as a figher and the liklihood that I would see him on TV and make this observation.)"<br /><br />There's also the simple fact that at low body fat % levels the jaw appears much more striking and angular. This is actually a surprisingly dramatic variable.Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14182972599089069828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-60600741567998397882008-08-23T01:51:00.000+03:002008-08-23T01:51:00.000+03:00"Right, and sprinting is the epitome of aggressive..."Right, and sprinting is the epitome of aggressiveness whereas martial arts aren't.."<BR/><BR/>I don't see martial arts as "aggressive" per se. Many practitioners see it as a means of self-defense. Surely you are aware of that, Dienekes?<BR/><BR/>Your intentional misinterpretation of my comment on sprinting aside (ha ha :P), arguing that martial arts is the epitome of aggressiveness is like arguing that rifles and machetes are the epitome of aggressiveness: these are merely tools of combat, although martial arts have a spiritual dimension for some people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-79157251971585409502008-08-22T12:16:00.000+03:002008-08-22T12:16:00.000+03:00Right, and sprinting is the epitome of aggressiven...Right, and sprinting is the epitome of aggressiveness whereas martial arts aren't..Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-65527199033869916122008-08-22T02:48:00.000+03:002008-08-22T02:48:00.000+03:00"I think you are generalizing from anecdotal evide..."I think you are generalizing from anecdotal evidence pertaining mostly to Asians in the Western world."<BR/><BR/>Yes, I do base my statements largely from many real-world examples. But Rushton's r-K continuum model in "Race, Evolution and Behavior" also supports my views.<BR/><BR/>Keep in mind that scientists -- oh, aren't their opinions supposed to be trustworthy? -- have a hard time accepting that Blacks have genetic advantages in sprinting (or at least they have a hard time admiting it publicly!).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-69202479300257562812008-08-22T02:18:00.000+03:002008-08-22T02:18:00.000+03:00I think you are generalizing from anecdotal eviden...I think you are generalizing from anecdotal evidence pertaining mostly to Asians in the Western world.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-4046651266797718482008-08-22T02:07:00.000+03:002008-08-22T02:07:00.000+03:00Dienekes wrote:"I don't really know why you think ...Dienekes wrote:<BR/><BR/>"I don't really know why you think that Mongoloids are typically less aggressive."<BR/><BR/>Politically and militarily, Asians can be very aggressive. This is because their intelligence (and tendencies to adhere to authority) allows them to become a powerful force in large-scale organizations.<BR/><BR/>Individually, racial variation notwithstanding, Asian men have a very difficult time coming across as manly. Their frames are weaker and they evidently have less testosterone. Psychologically, they are nowhere near Blacks in their socializing with strangers, especially members of the opposite sex. They are more likely than Whites and Blacks to be introverted computer nerds.<BR/><BR/>Aggressiveness is also a somewhat vague concept. A person can be aggressive on the football field and with women, but not in entrepreneurial activity or hacking. And vice versa.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-29245271120722640632008-08-22T01:50:00.000+03:002008-08-22T01:50:00.000+03:00But to address your concern, yes, Mongoloids (as I...<I>But to address your concern, yes, Mongoloids (as I understand) have some of the broadest faces on earth, and they are typically less aggressive.</I><BR/><BR/>The breadth of the face is not what typifies the Mongoloid face; many Caucasoid groups are broader-faced than many Mongoloid ones. Of course some of the most broad-faced groups are found among the Mongoloids, but that isn't what is typical about them.<BR/><BR/>I don't really know why you think that Mongoloids are typically less aggressive.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-76406995863657187782008-08-22T01:36:00.000+03:002008-08-22T01:36:00.000+03:00ebizur wrote:"Are you blind, or did you just decid...ebizur wrote:<BR/><BR/>"Are you blind, or did you just decide to ignore dragon horse's response at the top of the page?"<BR/><BR/>Why do I need to address anyone's comments? Unlike you, I don't spend much time reading blogs. I have better things to do.<BR/><BR/>But to address your concern, yes, Mongoloids (as I understand) have some of the broadest faces on earth, and they are typically less aggressive. <BR/><BR/>Among Caucasian groups, specifically Northern Europeans (e.g., hockey players), there may be a correlation between facial breadth and aggression. Across racial lines, this correlation probably does not hold.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes answers aren't as simple as we'd like, but that's no reason to get worked up over a blog post. Anyway, face to face, I doubt you'd talk to me that way. In fact, I bet you probably can't even bench your own weight.<BR/><BR/>Ha... and no, I am not broad-faced.<BR/><BR/>:P<BR/><BR/>the sanghaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-7330538769432102912008-08-21T22:21:00.000+03:002008-08-21T22:21:00.000+03:00tca: Phrenology involved feeling bumps on the skul...tca: Phrenology involved feeling bumps on the skull (and perhaps measuring cranial length and breadth)--not calculating the upper facial index.n/ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02378473351485233448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-34653453270404850872008-08-21T22:11:00.000+03:002008-08-21T22:11:00.000+03:00Physiognomy:a person's facial features or expressi...<I>Physiognomy:<BR/>a person's facial features or expression, esp. when regarded as indicative of character or ethnic origin.</I><BR/><BR/>Physiognomics is an ancient art, that was not limited to a persons facial features, but to his entire appearance. <BR/><BR/>Phrenology is more related to the brain than to external characteristics.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-72966302620620365602008-08-21T21:51:00.000+03:002008-08-21T21:51:00.000+03:00Physiognomy:a person's facial features or expressi...Physiognomy:<BR/>a person's facial features or expression, esp. when regarded as indicative of character or ethnic origin.<BR/><BR/>Phrenology:<BR/>the detailed study of the shape and size of the cranium as a supposed indication of character and mental abilities.<BR/><BR/>Touche'.The Colonizing Apehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00788762486797417862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-62502951223171371302008-08-21T19:29:00.000+03:002008-08-21T19:29:00.000+03:00On average Blacks are more aggressive than Whites,...<I>On average Blacks are more aggressive than Whites, and Whites more so than Asians. This is due primarily to differences in testosterone levels.</I><BR/><BR/>The literature on both testosterone/aggression and racial differences in testosterone is <A HREF="http://racehist.blogspot.com/search/label/testosterone" REL="nofollow">a bit more complex than that</A>.n/ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02378473351485233448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-24354275349070341062008-08-21T19:27:00.000+03:002008-08-21T19:27:00.000+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.n/ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02378473351485233448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-78488357746364951242008-08-21T18:57:00.000+03:002008-08-21T18:57:00.000+03:00I dont see were you people are drawing your conclu...I dont see were you people are drawing your conclusions from. Besides they chose one sport as an example, not that Hockey is the most agressive sport or whatever. Ryan Del Monte, the man the article used, isnt Northern European besides.Crimson Guardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08259882884691575025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-37296003837215417312008-08-21T18:03:00.000+03:002008-08-21T18:03:00.000+03:00I think Dragon Horse is on the right track. If yo...I think Dragon Horse is on the right track. If you've based a scientific study on the facial structure of hockey players, then you've based a study on the facial structure of white northern Europeans. <BR/><BR/>It's very doubtful you could extend the findings across other groups.<BR/><BR/>An interesting anecdotal corollary: I've noticed from watching Ultimate Fighter on TV that the combatants often have a characteristic big, square jaw. This distinct jaw is very noticeable, and is certainly found among these elite fighters at a higher frequency than the general population. But there could be two different reasons. First, this jaw could be an honest signal of some biological process that temperamentally predisposes one to view fighting as a vocation. Or second, this particular kind of jaw is not an honest signal of temperament, but is instead found at a higher frequency among elite fighters because it confers some advantage in the octagon. (Perhaps this kind of jaw is less likely to break? Or is more able to absorb blows without transmitting the kinetic energy directly to the mastoid, and hence the skull, thereby, by some small percentage, preventing the number of knockouts a fighter might face. This in turn would increase both his liklihood of success as a figher and the liklihood that I would see him on TV and make this observation.)Kosmohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05156165962330239126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-18664677393251011952008-08-21T10:38:00.000+03:002008-08-21T10:38:00.000+03:00The Sangha said..."Men who are typically more aggr...The Sangha said...<BR/><BR/>"Men who are typically more aggressive have more testosterone, which means they are generally more muscular and have a stronger bone structure, often evident in the jaw line.<BR/><BR/>On average Blacks are more aggressive than Whites, and Whites more so than Asians. This is due primarily to differences in testosterone levels."<BR/><BR/>Are you blind, or did you just decide to ignore dragon horse's response at the top of the page?<BR/><BR/>His question, which is much more interesting than your parrotting, refers to the fact that populations of northeastern Asia (e.g. Mongols, Koreans, Tungus, etc.) and some indigenous populations of the Americas have the broadest faces of any extant human groups. But do they also have the highest levels of testosterone and aggression?Ebizurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16925110639823856429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-78724248338137965152008-08-21T02:42:00.000+03:002008-08-21T02:42:00.000+03:00Men who are typically more aggressive have more te...Men who are typically more aggressive have more testosterone, which means they are generally more muscular and have a stronger bone structure, often evident in the jaw line.<BR/><BR/>On average Blacks are more aggressive than Whites, and Whites more so than Asians. This is due primarily to differences in testosterone levels.<BR/><BR/>The finding on aggression and facial width is interesting, but I'd like to see this study corroborated by further research.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-54942751008080421942008-08-21T00:11:00.000+03:002008-08-21T00:11:00.000+03:00>> I've always thought it was women who ...>> I've always thought it was women who had broader faces <BR/><BR/>See the updated entry.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-87494800444684022422008-08-20T23:45:00.000+03:002008-08-20T23:45:00.000+03:00Welcome to the 19th century... Viva phrenology!!!Welcome to the 19th century... Viva phrenology!!!Gogglyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04877492741956603139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-61274025392311219652008-08-20T22:46:00.000+03:002008-08-20T22:46:00.000+03:00colonizing ape:Physiognomy may be the word you're ...colonizing ape:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physiognomy" REL="nofollow">Physiognomy</A> may be the word you're looking for.n/ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02378473351485233448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-69244862420551117822008-08-20T21:53:00.000+03:002008-08-20T21:53:00.000+03:00The only strange thing here is that I've always th...The only strange thing here is that I've always thought it was women who had broader faces (a juvenile trait). How can it not be so?? Surely, you have to admit that at least that's the impression that you get when you look at women with typical feminine hairstyles.<BR/><BR/>Unless I'm misunderstanding the term broad-faced. Is it talking about looking face-on, or maybe sideways? If it's sideways, then sure, men with bigger jaws look more aggressive and I can see how they might act more aggressive too just based on their own looks.Stopped Clockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18155709284859187212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-72249319242267865562008-08-20T20:30:00.000+03:002008-08-20T20:30:00.000+03:00Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this count as...Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this count as phrenology?The Colonizing Apehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00788762486797417862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-54195904934676102752008-08-20T19:48:00.000+03:002008-08-20T19:48:00.000+03:00I think skinny faced men are introvert and deal wi...I think skinny faced men are introvert and deal with just their own,but I don't think they are less aggressive.I've noticed they are agressive about things that interest them,but not about the whole damned world.I think the square headed dudes are less aggressive;you really got to drag them out of their caves.Personally,I think agression is in the mind-If I want something-I gotta go get it or do it-it's not gonna go right by itself;See It's all in the HEAD.(My face is skinny up front and square on the back jaws.miz RAND BLOWTONhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13306476695686165653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-32020219485508684942008-08-20T16:11:00.000+03:002008-08-20T16:11:00.000+03:00So this means North East Asians are the most aggre...So this means North East Asians are the most aggressive people on earth next to Eskimos???<BR/><BR/>I find that hard to believe. Has this been tested across racial groups? Ice Hockey players are like 98% white Northern Europeans.UncleTomRuckusInGoodWhiteWorldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07508650487951730570noreply@blogger.com