tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post5442540217270356204..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Y-chromosomes of Albanian populations (Ferri et al. 2010)Dienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger148125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-7149186607962628342015-06-10T16:13:26.199+03:002015-06-10T16:13:26.199+03:00Ard Linz:
Troy: Greek: Τροία(Trea). The word come...Ard Linz:<br /><br />Troy: Greek: Τροία(Trea). The word comes from the Greek verb τιτρώσκω(titrosko) which means "to corrupt, to impale, to deflower"(Greek: φθείρω, διαπερνώ, διακορεύω). <br /><br />Lyra:Greek: Λύρα(Lyra) means instrument.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06228978894647631498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-30517501528729137132014-12-29T17:50:12.763+02:002014-12-29T17:50:12.763+02:00I did read every single line you guys said, and i ...I did read every single line you guys said, and i see some things very very very Blur . <br /><br />Words as <br /><br />Trojë/ Troya - In Albanian mens LAND,<br />Shqiponje/ Skypero - In Albanian means EAGLE <br />Gisht / Ghist - In Albanian means FINGER<br />Lyra/ Lyrius - In Albanian means ''Wind Instrument''<br />These words and many others, in todays Greek mean nothing <br /><br />And by the Way -GHEG is not GABEL . Gheg Is a Last name of a GUY who invented this dialect (Gjon Dol Gega) And the word TOSKË. Has nothing to do with LABS or thing like that ''It was a PLACE, a Land of Queen Teuta as they call it -<br /><br />In today's albanian archeologic facts , you can still read LINES and spell them very well as it was written today , and those things still have the same meaning . <br /><br />You cannot study things by books , you should go there and see facts . And by the way, Albanians are , probably the only people in planet who know at least 20 names of their family tree (name of father, name of grand father, name of grand-grand father and more) . And if you ask an albanian guy, you'll notice that the 20'th or 19'th name is typical name. Not a Latin or Greek name. <br /><br />Thank You !Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01464045611368161154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-66742025999625348772014-10-19T01:28:37.809+03:002014-10-19T01:28:37.809+03:00why are you not posting my comments...please let m...why are you not posting my comments...please let me know...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16377443669943653042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-89799957205156711732014-10-18T06:37:58.311+03:002014-10-18T06:37:58.311+03:00I may hypotheses that ethnic Albanians are not e d...I may hypotheses that ethnic Albanians are not e descendents of Illyrians as previously thought but of ancient PAlasgians.... <br /><br />Y haplogroup E1b1b (E-M35) in the modern Balkan population is dominated by its sub-clade E1b1b1a (E-M78) and specifically by the most common European sub-clade of E-M78, E-V13.[68] The area in and around Albanian speaking regions has the highest known percentages E-V13 in the world, and it is thought that the majority of E-V13 in Europe and elsewhere descend from a common ancestor who lived in the Balkans in the late Mesolithic or Neolithic, and that men of this lineage began to spread outside the Balkans as early as the Neolithic, or even as recently as the Roman era.[68][69][70][71][72][73]<br /><br />In contrast, another major discovery relevant to the study of E-V13 origins was the announcement in Lacan et al. (2011) that a 7000 year old skeleton in a Neolithic context in a Spanish funeral cave, was an E-V13 man. (The other specimens tested from the same site were in haplogroup G2a, which has been found in Neolithic contexts throughout Europe.) Using 7 STR markers, this specimen was identified as being similar to modern individuals tested in Albania, Bosnia, Greece, Corsica, and Provence. The authors therefore proposed that, whether or not the modern distribution of E-V13 of today is a result of more recent events, E-V13 was already in Europe within the Neolithic, carried by early farmers from the Eastern Mediterranean to the Western Mediterranean, much earlier than the Bronze age.<br />It appeared identical at the seven markers tested to five Albanian, two Bosnian, one Greek, one Italian, one Sicilian, two Corsican, and two Provence French samples and are thus placed on the same node of the E1b1b1a1b-V13 network as eastern, central, and western Mediterranean haplotypes (Fig. S1).<br /><br /><br />If we carefully look at the map and the highest percentages of E-V13, We can see that on the most areas where current ethnic Albanians live E-V13 has its highest percentages, Kosovo Albanians 47.5%, Albanians from Macedonia 39.1%, south Greece 43.5% (were ethnic Albanians called Arvanitas or Arberesh live), north Greece 35.4%, Arvanitas and Peloponnese area 47%% (it is known that Arvanitas lived in Peloponnese area too), and Albania with 27.5%. While the rest of the Greece (were traditionally is known that no Albanians live there) as of those from Crete have only 8.8%, Thrace 19%, and the rest of Greece overall, ethnic Greeks of today have only 19%, it also shows that greeks are much more Slavicized than Albanians with R1a 16%. Also more mixed with I2a 19% (Sardinia, Dalmatia). <br />In addition, based on a map shown with a percentage of E-V13, south Serbia (were ethnic Albanians live) has higher percentage of E-V13, and south east and north east part of Montenegro (were ethnic Albanians live) have also higher percentage.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16377443669943653042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-25498021324405047002010-04-07T23:27:13.579+03:002010-04-07T23:27:13.579+03:00I also checked to see if there are any genetic stu...I also checked to see if there are any genetic studies on the Sarakatsani. Apparently, there are, but I can't delineate the Y-dna haplogroup data.<br /><br />I also checked the Vlach and Sarakatsani wiki pages. As far as I can make out, only 3 out of about a hundred Vlach last names start with the Kara or Ka- prefix. On the Sarakatsani wiki page, about half of men who identify themselves as such, carry the Kara- or similar prefix on the front of their names.<br /><br />Certainly, Kara- prefixed names are extremely common in the villages of Mount Voion . . . Karayiannis, Karanicolas, Karathodorus, Karatasos, Karathanasis. <br /><br />Kara is also a given Ottoman prefix and appears in other parts of Greece, but for whatever reason, the Sarakatsani seem to have often taken this prefix on their names.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-64634275752076693432010-04-07T22:19:26.581+03:002010-04-07T22:19:26.581+03:00Aaron:
Don't know if you're at all still ...Aaron:<br /><br />Don't know if you're at all still following this thread, but your comments about R1b being of SE European origin seem worthy of further investigation, in my mind.<br /><br />It would be nice to see a detailed genetic study of Vlachs vs. the Sarakatsani. The Sarakatsani do *not* consider themselves to be Vlachs, but like the Vlachs, within memory, they were a transhumant people.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarakatsani<br /><br />Furthermore, it would be interesting to run a genetic comparison of Vlachs vs. Sarakatsani vs. the Laz people of turkey.<br /><br />It would have to be a careful study, using known family relationships, and not a blind study of a geographic area.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-86699173002377458412010-03-29T10:03:41.033+03:002010-03-29T10:03:41.033+03:00hey sass,
How wonderfully exasperating you are!
...hey sass,<br /><br />How wonderfully exasperating you are!<br /><br />Yes, terrific. That's the first time I've come across a specific simultaneous polyphonic (many frequencies) as well as time varying effect. (No ison.)<br /><br />I've heard popularized versions of this, but it's nice to see the real thing.<br /><br />Some of the things I pay attention to when I look at Balkan and Greek dances are:<br /> - the speed <br /> - the intricacy of the foot work<br /> - the reverses<br /> - the dress. Here, the dress is different in the style of the embroidery pattern on the sleeves, from a Macedonian. It's more geometric and is in a single color (red). The head coverings, here very fun, are somewhat different from a Western Macedonian.<br />Also to be noted:<br /> - the hold, hand or belt<br /> - the scarf flip<br /> - special tricks<br /><br />Here, check out this youtube flick:<br /><br />Osogovo Mountains (Eastern Macedonia)<br />http://www.youtube.com/<br />watch?v=8BWbKpv_bOI&feature=related<br /><br />There's some differences here, but still the belt hold, and fast, intricate dancing.<br /><br />The dancing that I'm used to seeing in Western Macedonia is slower, with less intricate steps, and with a hand(not belt) hold, like in the Albanian isopolyphony youtube flick I put up. <br /><br />Thank very much, ssas, for taking the time to hunt this down. And yes, it would be nice if there was an organization that would take these traditions on, and hand them down.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-53789635500178783892010-03-29T08:02:13.229+03:002010-03-29T08:02:13.229+03:00Marnie, are you going to deny this traditional si...Marnie, are you going to deny this traditional singing among Shops in Western Bulgaria is not real polyphony?<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=embqg-yKHNQ<br />Unfortunately nowadays only a few “babi”(grandmothers) can master this way of singing. The young girls would like to sing like Lady Gaga.genefanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09735643231654122583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-64848884341229628042010-03-28T23:39:05.052+03:002010-03-28T23:39:05.052+03:00Your point is irrelevant as I wrote of ancient Mac...<i>Your point is irrelevant as I wrote of ancient Macedonians, not ancient inhabitants of Macedonia. Of course there were non-Macedonians who lived in the territory of Macedonia, but the Macedonians were Greeks.</i><br /><br />Oh, my mistake. Sorry for the confusion.<br /><br /><i>But at least a couple of millennia before the custom in question is first attested, hence there is no specific reason to believe that it is of "Thracian" origin.<br /><br />It's like saying that a particular custom found in modern-day Konya is "Phrygian", just because Konya is where the Phrygians used to live. No, the custom might be pre-Phrygian, or Phrygian, or Greek, or ,..., or Turkish in origin.</i><br /><br />A completely reasonable argument.<br /><br /><i>That is a terminological quibble which depends on whether one considers the Dacians as Thracians, which was certainly not the case in antiquity.</i><br /><br />Ancient Greek and Roman writers often equated or at least associated them. <br /><br />But demographics of ancient Dacia has little relevance to our discussion about Thrace and its firewalking custom, so let's stop discussing Dacia and focus on Thrace.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-87717883159018570832010-03-28T20:53:06.860+03:002010-03-28T20:53:06.860+03:00WAITING FOR THE BARBARIANS
By Constantine Cavafy,...WAITING FOR THE BARBARIANS<br /><br />By Constantine Cavafy, (translated by Edmund Keeley)<br /><br /><br />What are we waiting for, assembled in the forum?<br /><br /> The barbarians are due here today.<br /><br />Why isn't anything happening in the senate?<br />Why do the senators sit there without legislating?<br /><br /> Because the barbarians are coming today.<br /> What laws can the senators make now?<br /> Once the barbarians are here, <br /> they'll do the legislating.<br /><br />Why did our emperor get up so early,<br />and why is he sitting at the city's main gate<br />on his throne, in state, wearing the crown?<br /><br /> Because the barbarians are coming today<br /> and the emperor is waiting to<br /> receive their leader.<br /> He has even prepared a scroll<br /> to give him,<br /> replete with titles, with<br /> imposing names.<br /><br />Why have our two consuls and praetors come out today<br />wearing their embroidered, their scarlet togas?<br />Why have they put on bracelets with so many amethysts,<br />and rings sparkling with magnificent emeralds?<br />Why are they carrying elegant canes<br />beautifully worked in silver and gold?<br /><br /> Because the barbarians are<br /> coming today<br /> and things like that dazzle the<br /> barbarians.<br /><br />Why don't our distinguished orators come forward as usual<br />to make their speeches, say what they have to say?<br /><br /> Because the barbarians are coming today<br /> and they're bored by rhetoric and public speaking.<br /><br />Why this sudden restlessness, this confusion?<br />(How serious people's faces have become.)<br />Why are the streets and squares emptying so rapidly, <br />everyone going home so lost in thought?<br /><br /> Because night has fallen and <br /> the barbarians have not come.<br /> And some who have just returned from <br /> the border say<br /> there are no barbarians any longer.<br /><br />And now, what's going to happen to us without barbarians?<br />They were, those people, a kind of solution.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-6971786106751572952010-03-28T20:40:06.864+03:002010-03-28T20:40:06.864+03:00unlike the ancient Macedonians who were clearly Gr...<i>unlike the ancient Macedonians who were clearly Greeks<br /><br />Northern parts of modern Greek Macedonia was ethnically Thracian before being assimilated by the Greeks.</i><br /><br />Your point is irrelevant as I wrote of ancient Macedonians, not ancient inhabitants of Macedonia. Of course there were non-Macedonians who lived in the territory of Macedonia, but the Macedonians were Greeks.<br /><br /><i>Greeks also lived in Thrace since very old times<br /><br />But they arrived to the region later than the Thracians.</i><br /><br />But at least a couple of millennia before the custom in question is first attested, hence there is no specific reason to believe that it is of "Thracian" origin.<br /><br />It's like saying that a particular custom found in modern-day Konya is "Phrygian", just because Konya is where the Phrygians used to live. No, the custom might be pre-Phrygian, or Phrygian, or Greek, or ,..., or Turkish in origin.<br /><br /><i>assimilated the Thracians completely<br /><br />If you mean all of the Thracains regardless of territory, only the most southern ones were Hellenized. More northerly Thracians (e.g., Dacians, Moesians) were never Hellenized and were later largely Romanized/Latinized by the Romans. </i><br /><br />That is a terminological quibble which depends on whether one considers the Dacians as Thracians, which was certainly not the case in antiquity. But, I have no problem with the idea that some Thracians were assimilated by the Latins.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-45450916840638424192010-03-28T19:39:06.551+03:002010-03-28T19:39:06.551+03:00unlike the ancient Macedonians who were clearly Gr...<i>unlike the ancient Macedonians who were clearly Greeks</i><br /><br />Northern parts of modern Greek Macedonia was ethnically Thracian before being assimilated by the Greeks.<br /><br /><i>that does not mean that anything that originated in the region of Thrace is (ethnically) Thracian in origin</i><br /><br />Of course.<br /><br /><i>Greeks also lived in Thrace since very old times</i><br /><br />But they arrived to the region later than the Thracians.<br /><br /><i>assimilated the Thracians completely</i><br /><br />If you mean all of the Thracains regardless of territory, only the most southern ones were Hellenized. More northerly Thracians (e.g., Dacians, Moesians) were never Hellenized and were later largely Romanized/Latinized by the Romans. <br /><br />If you mean only the Thracians of modern Thrace, probably most of them were Hellenized (the rest were Romanized) before the arrival of Slavs. <br /><br /><i>long before the arrival of the Slavs</i><br /><br />As far as I know, Balkan and Anatolian Thracians had been completely assimilated by the Romans and Greeks before the arival of the Slavs.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-90935120919166512672010-03-28T16:28:56.884+03:002010-03-28T16:28:56.884+03:00Do I understand well the Greeks are claiming the T...<i>Do I understand well the Greeks are claiming the Thracians were also a Greek tribe, the same way as with the Ancient Macedonians? </i><br /><br />No, it is YOU who claimed that the custom was Thracian and not Greek, but provided no evidence for your claim.<br /><br />The ancient Thracians were clearly a barbarian people, unlike the ancient Macedonians who were clearly Greeks. However, that does not mean that anything that originated in the region of Thrace is (ethnically) Thracian in origin, as the Greeks also lived in Thrace since very old times, and indeed assimilated the Thracians completely, long before the arrival of the Slavs who co-existed with the Greeks (and later with the Turks) in the geographical region of Thrace.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-77342813761024941292010-03-28T07:29:06.790+03:002010-03-28T07:29:06.790+03:00ssas and onur,
There isn't much evidence that...ssas and onur,<br /><br />There isn't much evidence that the early Church deliberately suppressed pantheist believes. There is a long and documented dialogue of theological thinking, over about five hundred years, as theologians worked to incorporate classical and pre-classical beliefs into their world view.<br /><br />There is some evidence of the Church desecrating ancient religious sites. For instance, Saint John Chrysostom is known to have destroyed the temple of Artemis at Ephesus. As an ardent supporter of the disenfranchised, he no doubt got a little carried away in his objection to the opulent wealth that was donated to this temple by the wealthy, while a situation of the most dire poverty engulfed Byzantium.<br /><br />Please read Michael Angold's book on Byzantium. "ssas", what you are suggesting in not in context for the time.<br /><br />onur, virtually every belief held before the Christian period could be argued to be "pagan." Everything we know about the classical world, from Ptolemy to Pindar, from the Panagaia to Demetra, travelled across the bridge of Orthodox monastacism and custom, arriving at the doorstep of the Renaissance.<br /><br />The Orthodox were largely unthreatened by pagan custom and science alike. It's an emblem of their confidence that they amalgamated and synthesized, rather than destroyed, their ancient world.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-62180531824591360592010-03-28T07:29:06.791+03:002010-03-28T07:29:06.791+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-67801674926313090232010-03-28T04:34:22.342+03:002010-03-28T04:34:22.342+03:00hi ssas,
It is true that many Thracian tribes wer...hi ssas,<br /><br />It is true that many Thracian tribes were never "hellenised" during the time of classical Hellens. The Battle of Troy appears to have been fought between the Thracians and the Greeks.<br /><br />However, it is also clear that in the southern part of Thrace, by the classical period, the larger part of Thracians had been hellenised, especially the ruling classes.<br /><br />Thucydides, the historian, was a wealthy Athenian noble, but also the son of Olorus, the King of Thrace. He lived between two homes, one in Athens, and the other in Thrace.<br /><br />The reach of Athens during the classical period, and even before, was far greater than people realize. It was commonplace for people to travel back and forth between Athens and Thrace.<br /><br />My view is that the modern border of Thracian Greece and Bulgaria is drawn in about the right place. <br /><br />The focus on the modern location of language really confuses the issue. Also, the focus on whether the language was "Slavic" or "Greek" really confuses the issue. I'd guess that the ancient Thracian and Macedonian languages were an "in between" of a Hellenic and a Slavic language.<br /><br />There really isn't a simple answer with so much history.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-5970947978697137202010-03-28T01:14:54.440+02:002010-03-28T01:14:54.440+02:00However, it can’t be a Greek CHRISTIAN tradition, ...<i>However, it <b>can’t</b> be a Greek CHRISTIAN tradition, as the church at the time was very active in prosecuting any signs of paganism or even sectarianism.</i><br /><br />You still didn't explain why it can't be Greek Orthodox Christian in origin (much less why it <b>must</b> be pagan in origin). <br /><br />Maybe that tradition survived because that it had no pagan or heretical roots and so wasn't prosecuted.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-83861822507395447532010-03-28T01:05:43.073+02:002010-03-28T01:05:43.073+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-82617052829933482972010-03-28T01:02:21.561+02:002010-03-28T01:02:21.561+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-33925593263099971512010-03-28T00:57:30.251+02:002010-03-28T00:57:30.251+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-38908234315821603642010-03-28T00:54:39.641+02:002010-03-28T00:54:39.641+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-73148795657890183812010-03-28T00:34:36.230+02:002010-03-28T00:34:36.230+02:00Do I understand well the Greeks are claiming the T...Do I understand well the Greeks are claiming the Thracians were also a Greek tribe, the same way as with the Ancient Macedonians? This is big news to me as all historians clearly state the Thracians were completely different people not only in language, but tradition and culture. They were usually hostile to the Greeks.<br />However with the spread of the Greek colonies on the Black sea coast (they had some inland, too as the big rivers like Marirtza were navigational in the past) they started passing some cultural influence.<br />Some of the Thracian aristocracy started buying luxury goods of foreign origin and even directly employing Greek artisans to build and decorate their tombs. But this does not make them Greek. Thrace was not Hellenised in ancient time, but it got latinised after it became a Roman province. Only with the switching of the Eastern Roman Empire back to old Greek traditions part of the population started using the Greek language again. They were not ethnic Greeks at all, just converts. Very large part of this played the Greek Orthodox Church by converting the pagans to Christianity.<br />Regarding the firewalking tradition in Strandja, of course there is no proof it is an old Thracian custom. However, it can’t be a Greek CHRISTIAN tradition, as the church at the time was very active in prosecuting any signs of paganism or even sectarianism. It survived only because was practiced in some isolated mountain villages. Here is to say, that many other ethnicities, not just the Greeks and the Slavs had a strong presence in Thrace. At the time it was a part of Bulgaria there settled also the Bulgars, Cumans, Alans, etc steppe ethnicities. When it was a part of the Byzantine Empire they ‘banished’ there Armenians, Georgians and other people from the East.<br />Furthermore, during Ottoman rule the Greek Orthodox Church had much influence and power. It took over most of the old Bulgarian dioceses and introduced again the services in Greek. Most rich and prominent people of other ethnicities tried to pass as Greeks, which gave them some privileges under Ottoman administration. Only at the end of 18 century there was some national revival of the Bulgarian and Macedonian people when they managed to restore the independence of their church and services in Slavic. However some purely Slavic villages, mainly in mixed regions did not go back under Bulgarian church. Since religion, not ethnicity was the main thing recognised by the Ottomans, those under the Greek church were considered Greek, not Bulgarian. This was also the principle of counting the minorities when the new borders were drawn after the Turkish empire disintegrated.<br />I think Greek people have no justification of claiming the Thracian Greeks were actually Greek by blood let alone the traditions and customs not part of Christianity were Greek.genefanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09735643231654122583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-23853428200593340592010-03-27T19:26:55.760+02:002010-03-27T19:26:55.760+02:00Dienekes,
The border has to be put somewhere. Th...Dienekes,<br /><br />The border has to be put somewhere. That is true.<br /><br />And the written record clearly records at the time of Philip and Alexander, which tribes sided with and against them. I'd have to have another look at Peter Green's book to remind myself of who was a Philip insider, and who was not.<br /><br />However, it is quite clear that many parts of FYROM share ancient cultural customs with Greek Macedonia, Slavic speaking or not. To name a few:<br /><br />- The Carnivale/Ragoutsaria bonfire celebration at Epiphany.<br /><br />- A cheese/egg pita as Vasilopita, instead of the cake version.<br /><br />- Sarplaninac/Molosser shepherd dogs<br /><br />- gaida/clarino music<br /><br />- polyphonic liturgical singing as in the Pindos (compared to the also very beautiful liturgical singing that you would hear in Chalkidiki, but which is not strictly speaking, polyphonic)<br /><br />- architectural customs<br /><br />to name a few.<br /><br />There is a series of youtube videos made about a village in the Osogovo Mountains that clearly shows Macedonian cultural similarities that span the border.<br /><br />I doubt that any Greek Macedonian or FYROM Macedonian is interested in redrawing the border.<br /><br />But it is poignant that ancient cultural customs are threatened and disappearing on both sides of the border, while the "Macedonian Question" still rages on.<br /><br />This only hurts Greece, ALL of Greece.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-91604566837915922682010-03-27T17:37:21.598+02:002010-03-27T17:37:21.598+02:00and may have later been passed on to Strandjan Bul...<i>and may have later been passed on to Strandjan Bulgarians after their conversion to Christianity</i><br /><br />Alternatively, firewalking Bulgarians may be directly descended from a group of linguistically Bulgarianized (in a later time) firewalking Christian Greeks.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-38219592019254744212010-03-27T17:21:24.173+02:002010-03-27T17:21:24.173+02:00The name of Thrace also attests to a major Thracia...The name of Thrace also attests to a major Thracian presence in Thrace and the surrounding regions in pre-Greek times.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.com