tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post5252747816665065454..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Face of 11-year-old victim of the Great Plague of AthensDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-19746855104475819122015-08-13T13:51:53.873+03:002015-08-13T13:51:53.873+03:00My fathers side of the family are redheads with fr...My fathers side of the family are redheads with freckles and overbite I had strawberry blonde hair as a child freckles and fair skin still have the freckles and fair skin my hair has slightly darkened and the overbite is under control due to braces, why is it such a shock to people to see Greeks with red hair and fair skin??? It's a European trait and Greeks are European.Christinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15309068275830762926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-58997543980683777702010-06-22T11:36:35.868+03:002010-06-22T11:36:35.868+03:00I'm a natural redhead (strawberry blonde) and ...I'm a natural redhead (strawberry blonde) and did not suffer from overbite or a need for braces. <br /><br />What a stereotype.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00205461709673440169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-79389906932259389892010-04-21T20:20:13.930+03:002010-04-21T20:20:13.930+03:00What do you mean by "archaic"? Cro-Magno...What do you mean by "archaic"? Cro-Magnoid?Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-86970394338612075052010-04-21T20:12:15.260+03:002010-04-21T20:12:15.260+03:00A bit off topic, but I interested in the opinion f...A bit off topic, but I interested in the opinion from Dienekes posters on these two pre-Islamic mummies from Yemen and there perfectly “almost oddly” round eye sockets. Is this typical for med. like populations? In comparison, the Cranium of the individual Greek female looks a bit more "archaic".<br /><br />Thanks<br /><br />Yemeni Mummie 1<br />http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/535/52834015.jpg<br /><br />Yemeni Mummie 2<br />http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/6838/71078202.jpgKatharóshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16649693310029639154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-77954813304828206622010-04-21T20:07:47.056+03:002010-04-21T20:07:47.056+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Katharóshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16649693310029639154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-62135260774276170222010-04-21T02:58:01.785+03:002010-04-21T02:58:01.785+03:00It is very difficult to guess at how hair color ha...It is very difficult to guess at how hair color has changed in Greece, and in Europe, for that matter, over the last several thousand years.<br /><br />There are a lot of other things that would explain a shift in hair color before a conjecture about the vulnerability of red haired people to the plague.<br /><br />Red hair is a recessive trait. It appears frequently only in populations that are quite inbred with respect to the red hair gene. That might explain the orthodontic problems, as well.<br /><br />Without sunglasses, it is tough to be a red haired, blue eyed person in Southern Europe. It's a subtle, but obvious point. There's probably a very gradual selection process against blue eyes and fair skin in the South of Europe.<br /><br />As far as fair hair in Greece is concerned, there is more hair color variability in Greece than a tourist, who tends to visit the Islands and Athens, would gain an impression of. <br /><br />And there is certainly a lot of eye color variability, again, somewhat dependant on geography. (According to village or region of origin.)<br /><br />That's my impression anyway. Frankly, it is something that has surprised me, having now spent some time there. It really has run against my childhood impression of who is Greek.<br /><br />I think that we (North Americans and others) are used to a stereotype of what a Greek looks like. A Greek who doesn't fit this stereotype is not remarked upon as being Greek. We think they are German or Italian or "us" and we don't add them in to our Greek stereotype.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-3366502076993025382010-04-19T23:58:10.285+03:002010-04-19T23:58:10.285+03:00descriptions in literature
Such descriptions shou...<i>descriptions in literature</i><br /><br />Such descriptions should be read with caution, because very often when they talk about blond hair they are actually referring to any people who have lighter hair than the average dark brown-black hair, or when they talk about dark or black skins they are actually referring to people with tan-colored skin (as in the very well-known example of Colchians), or when they talk about blue eyes they are referring to people with dark blue or even hazel eyes.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-71340371837032212412010-04-19T23:56:06.298+03:002010-04-19T23:56:06.298+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-38960176673233470802010-04-19T21:33:12.762+03:002010-04-19T21:33:12.762+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-78217941899543332942010-04-19T21:23:39.175+03:002010-04-19T21:23:39.175+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-69941376840905058262010-04-19T16:58:40.647+03:002010-04-19T16:58:40.647+03:00Maybe the plague preferentially killed the red-hai...Maybe the plague preferentially killed the red-haired Greeks?<br /><br />I say that 3/4 in jest but descriptions in literature and art show a wide variety of coloring among Greeks probably going back far earlier than classical times.<br /><br />If the artist had portrayed the theoretical average of dark hair and dark eyes, in one sense they would have been more accurate, but a those "average" images pile up they create their own inaccuracy.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10064974858744314873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-10863516323956578802010-04-16T15:56:56.943+03:002010-04-16T15:56:56.943+03:00So sampling people then and comparing to other anc...<i>So sampling people then and comparing to other ancient populations would help tease out the routes</i><br /><br />Yes. Using ancient DNA is the only feasible way for detecting and/or understanding an overwhelming majority of the mass migrations (including even the most recent ones) and even a little detailed migratory patterns.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-20534319014100139082010-04-16T15:56:56.944+03:002010-04-16T15:56:56.944+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-17678855905607319772010-04-16T15:53:50.904+03:002010-04-16T15:53:50.904+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-23389081925849076122010-04-15T23:13:35.559+03:002010-04-15T23:13:35.559+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-39748178802720109002010-04-15T23:12:33.085+03:002010-04-15T23:12:33.085+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-34141229703948750722010-04-15T23:10:22.067+03:002010-04-15T23:10:22.067+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-24362564348509846012010-04-15T22:23:26.473+03:002010-04-15T22:23:26.473+03:00Yeah, I agree - as Western Europe R1b seems to hav...Yeah, I agree - as Western Europe R1b seems to have been largely populated from an ultimately Near East population, with one branch going through Continental Europe, probably via Greece, and another going along the Southern European coast or North Africa, possibly via Cyprus.<br /><br />So sampling people then and comparing to other ancient populations would help tease out the routespconroyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10312469574812832771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-5877811108493917282010-04-15T21:57:18.742+03:002010-04-15T21:57:18.742+03:00It is interesting because of the way they died
It...<i>It is interesting because of the way they died</i><br /><br />It would be really interesting if their DNA and the way they died were managed to be associated. But I think it has a very small chance to happen, at least in the near future.<br /><br /><i>but even more interesting because it captures a timestamp of Athenians at the time of Pericles</i><br /><br />Comparing their DNA with the DNA of modern ethnicities/populations would be interesting.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-86525281747198561772010-04-15T21:31:24.740+03:002010-04-15T21:31:24.740+03:00onur,
The author's choice of red hair is puz...onur, <br /><br />The author's choice of red hair is puzzling. It's true that there are a small number of Greeks today who seem to be authentic red heads. However, it is quite uncommon.<br /><br />It is a point of minor interest in this paper as to why the authors chose red hair.<br /><br />Of course, the greater story, to me, are the discoveries that will come out of analyzing the DNA of the people who died during the Plague of Athens. If that is possible.<br /><br />It is interesting because of the way they died, but even more interesting because it captures a timestamp of Athenians at the time of Pericles.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-66945311220108605002010-04-15T21:29:56.128+03:002010-04-15T21:29:56.128+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Marniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10850856778953207810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-83073183665007810552010-04-15T19:10:36.783+03:002010-04-15T19:10:36.783+03:00I don't know why the authors chose red hair fo...<i>I don't know why the authors chose red hair for this girl.</i><br /><br />I guess it is because some people (but not many relative to the general population) living in that region had and/or have red or reddish hair.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-30158357277074277172010-04-15T19:09:04.839+03:002010-04-15T19:09:04.839+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-6449639460850607782010-04-15T19:06:39.238+03:002010-04-15T19:06:39.238+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-77455856800059611352010-04-15T19:05:28.599+03:002010-04-15T19:05:28.599+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.com