tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post5224868884959865326..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: First analysis of Metspalu et al. (2011) data (plus K12a admixture calculator)Dienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-52046263224633857142011-12-17T20:22:26.869+02:002011-12-17T20:22:26.869+02:00This mediterranean componente is more like a South...This mediterranean componente is more like a SouthWestern, since it peaks in Basques/Sardinians, and it is more frequent in Germanics than in Greeks, Italians or Cyprus, so it's not really mediterranean.anthrospainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12619826700444535050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-88154673571925844242011-12-16T08:58:53.937+02:002011-12-16T08:58:53.937+02:00So what would settled indo-iranian populations loo...So what would settled indo-iranian populations look autosomally without the ASI admixture/later West Eurasian ancestry(greeks, british, turks).<br /><br />Basically what did the andronovo/bmac(and ivc) mixed people be autosomally and in what percentage? (would there be med among them(maybe associated with the small amounts of r1b that apparently do exist (are these from the neolithic or later north iranian empires)?<br /><br />Would SW Asian be present?<br /><br />Is Gedrosia associated with SW Asian or W Asian? Is it purely West Eurasian?<br /><br />And what type of phenotype would that mix produce?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-19641687942318601802011-12-13T09:37:43.445+02:002011-12-13T09:37:43.445+02:00I didn't realize that picture showed Dodecad p...I didn't realize that picture showed Dodecad populations with n<5. Danes also have a positive Gedrosia:Caucasus ratio. I calculated Austrians and German Swiss, because I wanted to know. For anyone interested,<br /><br />Austrian_D: 45.6 N_Eu, 35.7 Med, 10.9 Cau, 4.8 Ged, 2.6 SW_As, 0.3 Sib, 0.2 S_As<br />Swiss_German_D: 39.2 Med, 36.5 N_Eu, 17.2 Cau, 4.9 Ged, 1.0 SW_As, 0.3 S_As, 0.3 Sib, 0.2 NW_Af, 0.2 SE_As<br /><br />Oracle showed me closest to Hungarians (9.1088) followed by Mixed_Germanic_D, German_D, and Dutch_D (11.1405). I calculated the following distances, and they're closer to me which isn't surprising.<br /><br />Austrian_D (4.9356)<br />Swiss_German_D (7.5980)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-3702840989420090572011-12-13T01:12:23.578+02:002011-12-13T01:12:23.578+02:00Also, after checking the actual Egyptian_D average...Also, after checking the actual Egyptian_D average for "South Asian" (pink) it is less than 3%, so I don't get what the big deal is anyway.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-13713371232470447332011-12-13T00:59:00.022+02:002011-12-13T00:59:00.022+02:00I know what's in the ADMIXTURE analysis. What ...I know what's in the ADMIXTURE analysis. What I'm telling you is that there are not 5 Egyptians in the Dodecad Project, hence there is no Egyptian average reported, hence your complaint that "The level of the "South Asian" component is unusual for the Dodecad Egyptians." is meaningless. If there are ever enough Dodecad Egyptians, we can tell whether the South Asian component in any number of them is unusual within the broader context, and hence whether they constitute outliers.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-3180329955967333392011-12-13T00:53:53.433+02:002011-12-13T00:53:53.433+02:00There are no Egyptians in the spreadsheet, since t...<i>There are no Egyptians in the spreadsheet, since there are not 5 Egyptians in the Dodecad Project.</i><br /><br />But there are Dodecad Egyptians in your ADMIXTURE analysis:<br /><br />http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/607/40469901.png/Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-78861010184782631632011-12-13T00:34:18.034+02:002011-12-13T00:34:18.034+02:00There are no Egyptians in the spreadsheet, since t...There are no Egyptians in the spreadsheet, since there are not 5 Egyptians in the Dodecad Project.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-80659365544052871132011-12-13T00:22:57.585+02:002011-12-13T00:22:57.585+02:00> The level of the "South Asian" comp...> The level of the "South Asian" component is unusual for the Dodecad Egyptians.<br /><br />The Egyptians (n=12) from Behar et al. 2010 are 0.3 South_Asian. What are you talking about?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-59834788009939254882011-12-13T00:05:39.083+02:002011-12-13T00:05:39.083+02:00The level of the "South Asian" component...The level of the "South Asian" component is unusual for the Dodecad Egyptians. If it is purely due to a single individual, I think he/she is most likely a Gypsy or recent Gypsy descendant. I would permanently remove such an individual from the Dodecad Egyptian population, as a Gypsy or recent Gypsy descendant cannot represent the Egyptian gene pool.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-58269867152654621062011-12-12T21:03:56.437+02:002011-12-12T21:03:56.437+02:00Yes, this is an unsupervised run.Yes, this is an unsupervised run.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-38955877188218425652011-12-12T20:13:45.387+02:002011-12-12T20:13:45.387+02:00Hello Dienekes
Is this an a unsupervised run? If ...Hello Dienekes<br /><br />Is this an a unsupervised run? If so, how come that the "Mediterranean" component is dominant in the two greatest European genetic isolates, the Basques and the Sardinians? <br /><br />Wouldn't it be more likely for each one of these two populations to create their own specific cluster?Eduardo Pintohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09199139277049366469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-33967246982182313442011-12-12T19:51:36.660+02:002011-12-12T19:51:36.660+02:00That was my very first thought after looking at th...That was my very first thought after looking at the Fst distances. It could be a wave of West Asians of mostly R1b carriers that became differentiated on their way with admixture of Central Asians like Northwest_African is with Mediterranean plus African admix. The only Europeans that show a >1 Gedrosia to Caucasus ratio are the Basque, British Islanders (Scots>Irish>English), Scandinavians, and Dutch. These are isolated areas which could partly explain the higher ratios.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-48059939875376726702011-12-12T18:40:28.978+02:002011-12-12T18:40:28.978+02:00Nice work! Do you have any theories as to why the ...<i>Nice work! Do you have any theories as to why the Gedrosia component is relatively high in the Irish sample compared to other European populations?</i><br /><br />I don't have an easy theory. My guess is that Central Asia has something to do with it, and there is a latent element that is beyond our reach using modern populations, because Central Asia has been much changed due to the arrival of Turkic peoples.<br /><br />This may also have something to do with it, although I don't necessarily agree<br /><br />http://rbedrosian.com/Classic/Indop2.jpgDienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-18161119723134136182011-12-12T18:37:14.906+02:002011-12-12T18:37:14.906+02:00@AP The Northern European element is not limited t...@AP The Northern European element is not limited to Europe. There is actually a latitudinal arrangement of the Caucasoid components in Asia, from north to south: NorthEuro, Caucasus, Gedrosia. The Kushans are derived ultimately from the north, so they would have shifted people in the direction measured by the NOrth European component.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-38501285488076862272011-12-12T18:29:05.068+02:002011-12-12T18:29:05.068+02:00Dienekes:
Nice work! Do you have any theories as ...Dienekes:<br /><br />Nice work! Do you have any theories as to why the Gedrosia component is relatively high in the Irish sample compared to other European populations?Average Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12203996329459638052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-36678351518762199912011-12-12T17:37:36.586+02:002011-12-12T17:37:36.586+02:00Re: "Uttar Pradesh was part of the Kushan Emp...Re: "Uttar Pradesh was part of the Kushan Empire"<br /><br />Uttar Pradesh was the heart of the Kushan empire with Mathura as one of their capitals. But why would the Kushans introduce that European element? There are some supposed remnants of the Kushans who are called Banaphars (cf. Vanashpara in Sarnath Inscription) made famous in lore by their clansmen Alha and Udal. http://books.google.com/books?id=uYXDB2gIYbwC&pg=PA4APhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09934397498634833316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-75905390560191787382011-12-12T04:40:10.796+02:002011-12-12T04:40:10.796+02:00You included the two Romanians from Behar et al. 2...You included the two Romanians from Behar et al. 2010 with Gypsy admixture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-13544580765023180242011-12-12T02:24:09.638+02:002011-12-12T02:24:09.638+02:00@Giulia
"i'm perplexed.. how can some nor...@Giulia<br />"i'm perplexed.. how can some northern european group have more mediterranean admixture than some italians like northern italians or tuscans?"<br /><br />If mediteranean wasn't mediteranean but basal i.e. base neolithic farmers, and that was then mixed in varying proportions with northern migrations folding backwards in proportion to the path of least resistance then the "mediterranean" element might survive better in inaccessible parts of the northern or central regions (like Wales or Brittany) then in the accessible parts of southern regions (like Tuscany).<br /><br />It would survive the best in the least accessible parts of the south.Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-70423872279524095822011-12-11T21:27:54.610+02:002011-12-11T21:27:54.610+02:00The component can be called whatever one wants. I ...The component can be called whatever one wants. I called it Mediterranean because it was modal in Sardinians and Basques. Whatever it's called, it has the distribution shown.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-21145871422452438032011-12-11T21:19:51.562+02:002011-12-11T21:19:51.562+02:00i'm perplexed.. how can some northern european...i'm perplexed.. how can some northern european group have more mediterranean admixture than some italians like northern italians or tuscans?Giuliahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16852390914630079520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-88082686412476177022011-12-11T18:36:20.992+02:002011-12-11T18:36:20.992+02:00Dienekes,
Do you think most of these clusters re...Dienekes, <br /><br />Do you think most of these clusters reflect population movements or just areas where people tend to breed more frequently with one another, without any actual movements of people occuring? <br /><br />I remember reading on your blog a few years ago that a cluster involving particular groups means that breeding between groups was more frequent between those groups, i.e. if you have population A and B and C and D, and A breeds more with B and C breeds more with D, you'd get AB and CD clusters without population movements.<br /><br />So I'd guess you've thought about it and would have good reasons either way.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-85847715151750599612011-12-11T17:48:13.574+02:002011-12-11T17:48:13.574+02:00I'm not sure if it is significant but does any...I'm not sure if it is significant but does anyone have an idea on why the gedrosia element forms a nice cline in Europe that peaks in the northwest?princenuadhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02165977957244158593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-76659007826241262722011-12-11T17:04:09.259+02:002011-12-11T17:04:09.259+02:00I've been following the genome blogosphere for...I've been following the genome blogosphere for a while, but there's still some things I don't understand. I have a lot of questions about the criteria for choosing K, the specific clustering algorithms, the percentage of variance lost in dimensionality reduction, etc.<br />Is there any web page or paper that describes the standard practices of genome information processing?<br />If anyone knows please post a link, it will be very appreciated.Andréshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00708925743497933631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-21996048039250710732011-12-11T16:31:01.267+02:002011-12-11T16:31:01.267+02:00The only probably Saka-Scythian (or Tocharian) gen...The only probably Saka-Scythian (or Tocharian) genetic influenced South Asian population I have seen so far is Jats. There may of course be others, but indigenous peoples of Uttar Pradesh do not seem to be so.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-46800416286689997302011-12-11T15:31:09.815+02:002011-12-11T15:31:09.815+02:00A collection of words does not an argument make.A collection of words does not an argument make.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.com