tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post4793130769734165919..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Y-haplogroup O3 in the eastern HimalayasDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger70125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-18892828435894712112016-01-10T23:19:31.014+02:002016-01-10T23:19:31.014+02:00On the other hand, people with quite distinct domi...<i>On the other hand, people with quite distinct dominant Y-DNA strands look much more similar: Finnish (N1c), Irish (R1b), Swedes (I1), Greeks (E1b) and Iranians (J2) are pretty much the same in looks.</i><br /><br />It would be a stretch to suggest that these nations are pretty much the same in looks. <br /><br /><i>Same for Mongols (C1), Han (O3), Tibetans (D) and Maya (Q1).</i><br /><br />ditto for themOnur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-57081283260547094662016-01-08T19:40:37.391+02:002016-01-08T19:40:37.391+02:00An EDAR370A, a Sinodonty shovel teeth shape plus 3...An EDAR370A, a Sinodonty shovel teeth shape plus 3 roots of first molar teeth in lower jaw, small breast, thicher hair and more Sweat Glands. Today, a Chinese PaleoAnthropologies can't denied a Recent African Origins Theory than an ancient Chinese descendants from Sinanthropus Pekingensis or Multiregional Theory. Indeed, sometimes i founded an East and Southeast Asians with a "Butterfly" teeth shapes and supernumerary teeth in the middle of incisors tooth in Asian People. My Orthodontic Dentist told me when supernumerary teeth cases are more often in the Asians people than European and Middle Eastern. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17782704383261192202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-79248621545207008302016-01-08T19:24:13.448+02:002016-01-08T19:24:13.448+02:00So, it seems when a Human Haplogroups mutations ar...So, it seems when a Human Haplogroups mutations are older than a human phenotype genetic markers aka Human "Race". But, a Family Tree DNA and The Genographic Project rejected a concept of a " Human Race" even though they're have an Autosomal Regional Population around the world. And from Wikipedia, an Ainuid people are closely related with a Nivkhs people in Sakhalin Island and Eastern Siberian (mtDNA Hg Y, N9a).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17782704383261192202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-77478877025961826222016-01-08T19:15:47.388+02:002016-01-08T19:15:47.388+02:00Onur, a Historum.com Netizen called "Purakjel...Onur, a Historum.com Netizen called "Purakjelia" told to anothers Historum.com Netizen about "Mongoloid" / "Asiatic" physical appearance were developed by a Human groups from Y Hg C-M217 and his counterpart, an mtDNA Hg M, C, Z, D, G, etc. I just followed his/her (Purakjelia) argument or theory about East Asians ancient ancestors.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17782704383261192202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-66011387695605012302016-01-08T19:09:43.124+02:002016-01-08T19:09:43.124+02:00Well, actually on Geno 2,0 map showen when a migra...Well, actually on Geno 2,0 map showen when a migration of an mtDNA Hg M moved from East Africa to Asia via Arabian Coastal Line to East Asia via Indus River and Valley on Pakistan - Afghanistan - Kyrgistan and give rise to mtDNA Hg CZ, C, Z, D and G. Probably a similar cases with a Y Hg C's carrier.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17782704383261192202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-42026837262008847152016-01-07T00:22:24.009+02:002016-01-07T00:22:24.009+02:00"All East Asians Y Chromosome Haplogroup are ..."All East Asians Y Chromosome Haplogroup are from Southern and Southeast Asia excluding Y Hg Q*-M242. Both Old Asians Y Hg C*-M130, Y Hg D*-M174 and New Asians Y Hg NO*-M214 N and O are from East Africa moved toward Asia and Australia but an Old Asians apparenty moved from South Asia Coastal Migration around 50.000 Years ago BP" <br /><br />The recently updated Y-DNA C-M130 phylogeny is very informative. Your C3 is now C2-M217 and is basically unchanged except for the '2'. It still forms six branches, primarily from northern China and further north. Interestingly two basal branches are virtually confined to Japan (C2a and C2f) although C2a seems to be gradually disappearing from the phylogeny. C1 forms two clades: C1a and C1b. C1a itself forms two widely separated clades, one in Japan and one in Europe. In biology widely separated subspecies are considered indicative of a formerly widespread single species whose members have become extinct through the intermediate region. That could be the case here. <br /><br />Anyway, C1b is definitely 'southern' and perhaps could be used to support a migration through South Asia for the whole C haplotype. However difficulties with that idea immediately arise. Members of both C1 and C2 are present in Japan. Of course that in no way indicates the haplotype arose there. But it Probably arose somewhere not too far away. <br /><br />Returning to the C1b clade: Wallace's Line has always been a major biological obstacle and so it should be no surprise to find that C1b forms two clades, one each side of Wallace's Line. C1b1 to the west and C1b2 east of the line. C1b2 simply splits into southeast Indonesian (C1b1), probably forming originally in the triangle formed by the islands Timor, Sumba, Alor and Flores; and Australian (C1b2) clades, presumably entering Australia via Timor. C1b1 also forms two clades: Indian C1b1a and Borneo C1b1b. This surely indicates that when the the ancestor of C1b reached the region Borneo was connected to the mainland at a time of very low sea level, but just the ancestor of C1b2 was able to cross open water. <br /><br />Interestingly C1b1a also forms two clades, C1b1a1 in western India and C1b1a2 in Bangladesh. In other words the most westerly South Asian C Y-DNA is most certainly not a basal clade. It is very much a downstream on. That is surely not what we would expect if Y-DNA C had moved east through South Asia. It fact it looks far more likely that C arrived in South Asia from the east, not the west. terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-8697185575451643152016-01-06T02:32:22.711+02:002016-01-06T02:32:22.711+02:00@Adrian
I agree with you that the most pronounced...@Adrian<br /><br />I agree with you that the most pronounced types of the Mongoloid race are found NE Asia (the types commonly subsumed under the physical anthropological category Tungusid) and that the Mongoloid race likely originated somewhere in NE Asia. But I am currently unsure about which Y-DNA haplogroups were most represented among the earliest Mongoloids. Ancient DNA tests of the earliest known Mongoloid skulls might settle the issue. Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-13866301477526260942016-01-06T02:06:16.029+02:002016-01-06T02:06:16.029+02:00Adrian Yohanes Purnomo. There is a huge problem y...Adrian Yohanes Purnomo. There is a huge problem you are not facing up to. It is surely obvious that at one time a very similar-looking population that at one time stretched through South Asia, Southeast Asia, New Guinea and Australia. It was probably also present in the Philippines and into South China. <br /><br />"Do you still think when an Ainuid are closely related with an Australoid or a Southeast Asians like "Native" Indonesians? The answer is Yes IF we just talked about Sinodonty and Sundadonty". <br /><br />And possibly as far north as Japan. At some more recent time such a population has been largely replaced right through Southeast Asia (and in Japan) by a Mongoloid-looking population that almost certainly spread from somewhere north of SE Asia during the Early East Asian Neolithic. Do you mean to say that this population replacement did not involve any haploid DNA lines? I'm sure you agree that such a scenario is impossible. <br /><br />"but this markers are relatively new'. <br /><br />Yes. A little more than 30,000 years ago. And that is most likely when the Mongoloid phenotype first formed. The EDAR370A mutation is not just found in NE Asians Populations but through Southeast Asia, northeastern South Asia and out into the Pacific. It is not present at all in Australian Aborigines and only present in coastal New Guinea, especially along the northern and western coastline. This fits exactly the idea of a gradual expansion from northern China that mixed with the pre-existing population in SE Asia and formed the basis of the Austronesians. <br /><br />"Y Hg NO*-M214 N and O are from East Africa moved toward Asia and Australia" <br /><br />I agree that NO's deeper origins lie in SE Asia. After all it is K2 and every other branch of K2 except K2b2 (better known as P) is found there. But obviously neither N nor O formed in SE Asia. terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-9410389422110894252016-01-06T01:55:27.683+02:002016-01-06T01:55:27.683+02:00Sorry, Adrian, I lost track. When you replied to m...Sorry, Adrian, I lost track. When you replied to me above it looked to me such a complicated argument conflating extremely ancient Y-DNA lineages from times before "races" were defined (just look at the Ainu, for instance) with what is probably a more recent homogenization of the overall (autosomal) genome, which is the one defining how we look, that I really thought better to drop the matter altogether. <br /><br />If Y-DNA and "racial" phenotype would be tightly related, then Irish, Uyghurs and Chadic peoples from North Cameroon would look very alike (they do not), then Finnish and Buryats would look alike (they don't), Polish and Bengalis would look alike (they don't), Yemeni Jews and Mayas would look alike (they don't) or even, going a bit upstream, Papuans, Chinese and Europeans would look alike (all them are mostly K2), yet they do not. <br /><br />On the other hand, people with quite distinct dominant Y-DNA strands look much more similar: Finnish (N1c), Irish (R1b), Swedes (I1), Greeks (E1b) and Iranians (J2) are pretty much the same in looks. Same for Mongols (C1), Han (O3), Tibetans (D) and Maya (Q1). Etcetera. <br /><br />This is because the lineages diverged and spread when the modern looks, what are usually called "races", were still not consolidated in any way. The formation and consolidation of those quasi-homogeneous phenotypes was probably layered (big nosed Peruvians, bearded Ainu or Orang Asli with curly hair may illustrate some of the ancient variance for the case of the East, when diversity was still greater) and got consolidated towards the modern, more recognizably quasi-homogeneous phenotype after the LGM and to some extent even since the Neolithic itself. Much of the same surely happened in the West, although the phenotype seems to be a bit more homogeneous, probably because the settlement is more recent (only since the Upper Paleolithic for the greatest part), allowing maybe for a greater impact of the "family looks" of that founder effect. Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-12895055341098471292016-01-01T12:47:55.291+02:002016-01-01T12:47:55.291+02:00Whathever do you thinks, there are no solid eviden...Whathever do you thinks, there are no solid evidence about a people of Y Hg NO*-M214 + mtDNA Hg R Type and a Y Hg C3-M217 and Q*-M242 + mtDNA Hg M and N (x R) are responsible together to give rise an "Asiatic" Phenotype. Very rare people in NE Asians like Siberian, Tungusic, Western Altaian and Nobody Eskimoid, Chukchi and Northern and Southern Native American have a Y Hg NO*-M214 especially Y Hg O*-M175 and it's sub branches.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17782704383261192202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-9100452762524856312016-01-01T12:32:21.661+02:002016-01-01T12:32:21.661+02:00But, i never saw a Scientific Report who told when...But, i never saw a Scientific Report who told when an Asians Y Hg NO*-M214 and mtDNA Hg R Type give rise a "Mongoloid" phenotype together aoong with a NE Asians Y Hg Q*-M242 and C3-M217 + mtDNA Hg C,D,G and Z (M Type), mtDNA Hg A, Y, N9a (N Type). Please checked a Human Genealogy report by Prof Li Jin and Li Hui from Fudan University, Shanghai. An EDAR370A mutation who make a Shovel Shape Teeth, Small Breast, a lot of Sweat Glands, a Thicher and Straigh Hair are found in NE Asians Population but this markers are relatively new. A "Saqqaq Man" in Greenland have a Shovel Shape Teeth (Sinodonty) but a "Saqqaq Man" carried a Y Hg Q*-M242. Similar with a Kennewick Man Y Hg Q*-M242 and mtDNA Hg X2b, a Native American Haplogroups. But a mostly Ainuid have a Y Hg D2-M55, some Y Hg C-M217 and mtDNA Hg Y and N9a, not X* (N Type). Do you still think when an Ainuid are closely related with an Australoid or a Southeast Asians like "Native" Indonesians? The answer is Yes IF we just talked about Sinodonty and Sundadonty.<br />Allright, can you tell me what an Autosomal Regional Percentage about an Ainuid, Kennewick Man and Saqqaq Man? Give me a solid evidence from Scientific Report, not another Netizens "Opinion"! This is Science, 99 peoples are stil wrong if they said: 1 + 1 = 3 and a single person is correct if he/she said: 1 + 1 = 2. And i wouldn't accept a multiple theory and never tolerate a Myth and a Dishonest people.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17782704383261192202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-48607559355454890662016-01-01T11:58:54.102+02:002016-01-01T11:58:54.102+02:00You guys! Justin, Latdrinor, Gregory76, Terryt and...You guys! Justin, Latdrinor, Gregory76, Terryt and Maju: <br />This topic isn't about agree or disagree. This is a Science! Not Sociology, Religion or another Social Education. So just a 1 correct answer for a several problems. I know when today, an Autosomal DNA Regional aren't yet standarization by Genealogist. A lot of your agreement about Human DNA, Autosomal DNA, Y Chromosome and mtDNA Haplogroup doesn't make your arguments are true or correct and plausible based on Scientific perspective. Really, "We actually don't know what we think what we do!" said Dr Spencer Wells from The China Mystery Mummies documentary).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17782704383261192202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-54480477313103384542016-01-01T11:37:55.690+02:002016-01-01T11:37:55.690+02:00All East Asians Y Chromosome Haplogroup are from S...All East Asians Y Chromosome Haplogroup are from Southern and Southeast Asia excluding Y Hg Q*-M242. Both Old Asians Y Hg C*-M130, Y Hg D*-M174 and New Asians Y Hg NO*-M214 N and O are from East Africa moved toward Asia and Australia but an Old Asians apparenty moved from South Asia Coastal Migration around 50.000 Years ago BP and a New Asians moved to Asia via Southern Himalayas and Northern India and Pakistan around 35.000 Years ago BP. But their Y Haplotype: D1, D2-M55 and D3 probably born in South Asia or Soutwest China. Y Haplotype C3-M217 are probably from Eastern China Coastal Line, a Subgroup of C3, C3a, C3b, C3c....estimated from around Lake Baikal in Siberia. A Y Hg C*-M130 and another C's EXCEPT Y Hg C3* / C2-M217 are a Southern Y Haplogroups. Y Hg C-M217 are a Northeast Asians marker. Talking about Ainuid Jomon, even though a lot of peoples though an Ainu are a Southeast Asians or Australoid because their physical appearance and they're Y Hg D2-M55, descendant from Y Hg D*-M174 in Andaman Island or SE Asia but the Geneticist are never told about Ainuid Autosomal DNA. On Wikipedia, the closest related ethnic group of Ainuid are a Nivks peoples on Sakhalin Island and East Siberia near Amur River. An Ainuid and Nivks share a common Maternal lineage mtDNA Hg Y, N9a,...(N Type).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17782704383261192202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-12120070651317723462015-12-29T05:36:02.487+02:002015-12-29T05:36:02.487+02:00Based on information provided by scientific papers...Based on information provided by scientific papers. There have been multiple papers published on Far Eastern and Australian haploid DNA and I think it would pay you to at least glance at the publication concerning the EDAR370A mutation. terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-56798715848137616062015-12-25T06:17:59.462+02:002015-12-25T06:17:59.462+02:00Excuse me, Terryt and anothers Netizen in this for...Excuse me, Terryt and anothers Netizen in this forum, are yours "theory" about this topic are based on Scientific research or just "I think when....." or "I believe it can be.....". This is a Science who it can brake a misconception, myth and another false think. So be carefull if all of you have a different "opinion" about Human Genealogist because it is a sensitive discussion.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17782704383261192202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-74468454336160922172015-12-25T05:31:16.213+02:002015-12-25T05:31:16.213+02:00Justin, you though when a Japanese Jomon Ainuid wa...Justin, you though when a Japanese Jomon Ainuid was a Australoid? From their Y Chromosome Hg D2-M55 and mtDNA Hg Y (N Type) an ancient ancestor of Ainu people probably have a distance related with an Australoid and Pasific Islander, but the Geneticist never told when Ainuid are completely an Australoid / Pasific Islander or a Southeast Asians. Did they release an "Ainuid" Autosomal Regional Percentage? If was, i want to know about it. <br />Learned about a Kennewick Man, some Scientist firstly though when Kennewick Man are a "Caucasian" like an Ainuid, but "his" Uniparental DNA shows when "he" is a typicall Native American people. Kennewick Man brought a Y Hg Q3-M3 and mtDNA Hg X2a, an Eurasian and American Haplogroup. But i don't know about Kennewick Man Autosomal Regional DNA. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17782704383261192202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-34512943492688254522015-12-22T23:23:48.323+02:002015-12-22T23:23:48.323+02:00Sorry. A further point:
"But if you're...Sorry. A further point: <br /><br />"But if you're still think when a Y Hg NO and mtDNA Hg R* are an original people with a 'Mongoloid' Phenotype" <br /><br />I don't think anyone, including Lathdrinor and Gregory76, would actually think that. Certainly not all mt-DNA R haplotypes are Mongoloid. And even carriers of Y-DNA C3 (now C2) were not likely carriers of the phenotype when the haplotype first formed. C1b is definitely not Mongoloid and C1a was possibly not originally either. As you say, "there's no valid evidence about a Y Hg and mtDNA Hg with a phenotipe carrier". The same haploid branch may contain any variety of a-DNA and different haplotypes can carry the same a-DNA. However it is most parsimonious to accept that the Mongoloid phenotype developed in a specific region and spread from there. The EDAR-370A gene obviously does not define the Mongoloid phenotype I believe it can be used as representative. And we can be reasonably sure where it expanded from. To me it seems quite likely that the phenotype is yet another example of introgression into the modern human subspecies. And it seems to have entered a haplotypically diverse population which included Y-DNAs C2, N and O as well as several mt-DNA haplotypes. terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-68007884006551302832015-12-22T22:54:52.692+02:002015-12-22T22:54:52.692+02:00"I'm sorry to say but a Mongolian, Northe..."I'm sorry to say but a Mongolian, Northern Chinese, Altaian and Native Siberian are far difference compare to an Austronesian, Austroasiatic and a Southern "Han" Chinese" <br /><br />Obviously so. And both groups are totally different from Papuans and Australian Aborigines. It is extremely obvious to me that at one time a very similar looking population was spread through India, Southeast Asia, through to New Guinea and Australia. It is unknown how far north this population existed but it was certainly present as far north as northern Vietnam. It is also extremely obvious to me that this once continuous population has been diluted, and even replaced, by the expansion of a Mongoloid population from somewhere to the north over the last few thousand years. The only haploid possibility for such an expansion is Y-DNA O. Therefore that haplotype must have been Mongoloid by the time of that expansion. The difference between the two populations you mention is then easily explained as being the product of interbreeding in the southern group between the southern and northern East Asian populations. <br /><br />"I never heard when a Geneticist like Dr Wells, Prof Picchapan, Dr Felix Li Jin + Li Hui and another Genographic Project and an FTDNA Geneticist claimed when a Y Hg NO, N and O people are a 'Mongoloid Carrier' and don't forget about Mitochondrial DNA Maternal line". <br /><br />Obvioulsy 'something' carried the Mongoloid phenotype into South China, Southeast Asia and out into the Pacific with the Austronesians. Y-DNA O is the only possible candidate. As for mt-DNA, there is very little difference between northern and southern haplotypes except where the Mongoloid phenotype has spread along the northern margin of the Papuan/Australian phenotype. There we find mt-DNA B4 almost on its own, with some Papuan/Australian haplotypes mixed in. <br /><br />terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-25732333790155094962015-12-18T18:11:49.561+02:002015-12-18T18:11:49.561+02:00I don't want to argued with you and another Ne...I don't want to argued with you and another Netizen in this forum. If you're think when a Proto Mongolic aren't that difference with a Proto Sinitic, please show to us a strong evidence about your "theory" about Sinitic and Mongolic people even though they're not better / more superior to each other. This is a Human Genealogical DNA Science who have a solid evidence and reality, not a Political or Social Problem.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17782704383261192202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-90666813139290140842015-12-18T17:39:01.418+02:002015-12-18T17:39:01.418+02:00Lathdrinor:
Ok, if you think when a people with Y ...Lathdrinor:<br />Ok, if you think when a people with Y Hg O-M175, not Y Hg C3-M217 are a "Mongoloid" phenotype developer, please give us a strong evidence to support your "opinion". I never heard when a Geneticist like Dr Wells, Prof Picchapan, Dr Felix Li Jin + Li Hui and another Genographic Project and an FTDNA Geneticist claimed when a Y Hg NO, N and O people are a "Mongoloid Carrier" and don't forget about Mitochondrial DNA Maternal line.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17782704383261192202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-22161316098020985462015-12-18T17:25:11.136+02:002015-12-18T17:25:11.136+02:00Gregory76, are you sure when a men with Y Hg NO*, ...Gregory76, are you sure when a men with Y Hg NO*, N and O are a "Mongoloid" carrier? Even though there's no valid evidence about a Y Hg and mtDNA Hg with a phenotipe carrier, some Netizen like Purakjelia from History.com, etc are convidently when actually a people with a Y Hg C3-M217 and mtDNA Hg CZ, C, Z, D and G are a "Mongoloid Phenotype" developer, not a Y Hg NO and mtDNA Hg R, B and F. But if you're still think when a Y Hg NO and mtDNA Hg R* are an original people with a "Mongoloid" Phenotype, please contact Purakjelia him/herself. And check your "opinion" to The Genographic Project, FTDNA and ISOGG Human Genome Database. Or you're can measured who peoples with a Brancycephalic skull and another "Mongoloid" face are more frequent to brough a Y Hg C3-M217 + mtDNA Hg M Type or a Y Hg NO*-M214 + mtDNA Hg R Type. I'm sorry to say but a Mongolian, Northern Chinese, Altaian and Native Siberian are far difference compare to an Austronesian, Austroasiatic and a Southern "Han" Chinese aka Sino Tibetan both Paternal and Maternal line also their Autosomal + Phenotype DNA. An Old East Asians like Mongolian, Altaian and another NE Asians people Y Hg C3-M217 and mtDNA Hg M Type like CZ, C, Z, D and G come earlier to Far East Asia Pasific than Y Hg NO and mtDNA Hg R Type so they're have more time to developed a "Mongoloid" phenotype. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17782704383261192202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-40261194582252138372015-11-28T05:51:37.720+02:002015-11-28T05:51:37.720+02:00"Proto Mongolic ancient ancestors are quite d..."Proto Mongolic ancient ancestors are quite different than a Proto Sinitic ancient ancestors". <br /><br />Not necessarily so. I feel sure it will ultimately be proven that the features we regard as making up the instantly recognisable Mongolian phenotype originated within a single, relatively isolated population. But the phenotype didn't spread into uninhabited territory. As it spread it mixed with the earlier inhabitants. These were quite different populations to the north and to the south. That is what gave rise to the 'separate' Proto Mongolic and Proto Sinitic populations. The Y-DNA lines expanded further than the mt-DNA lines. Y-DNAs C2 and N tended to go northward and Y-DNA O southward. To me that explains everything about modern eastern haplogroup distribution. <br /><br />"Mongolic and Sinitic DNA, they're have an extremely different thinks and some of them have a Racial words like: " I'm a members of Y Hg O and i don't feel when i'm a Mongoloid peoples " or " You're guys, Mongolian failed to replacement your Y Haplogroup C3 / C2 M217 to the Chinese Men Y Haplogroup O M175 " and anothers opinions....etc. These topics make me sick and frustrated so much". <br /><br />To me that is certainly placing an incorrect conclusion on the data. We are what we are. Nothing is 'superior' to anything else. terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-55490804671746032262015-11-19T02:09:46.824+02:002015-11-19T02:09:46.824+02:00Dear Terryt,
With all do my respect, these Diekene...Dear Terryt,<br />With all do my respect, these Diekenes forum opinion are make me quite confuse and frustration because in this forum, all comentators have a different opinion and interpretation about these topic, a Proto Mongolic and a Proto Sinitic origines and their DNA. Someone in Historum.com forum member, Purakjelia, have a quite different opinion with another commentator both in Historum.com and the Diekenes Anthropology. Purakjelia told to another Historum.com follower when a Proto Mongolic ancient ancestors are quite different than a Proto Sinitic ancient ancestors. They're have a different culture, a different vocabulary fundamental languages: a Mongolic "Altaian" SOV and a Sinitic SVO even their DNA Haplogroups are quite difference. He confidenly told when even though the scientists don't have a solid evidence about a human physical appearance with a human Y Chromosome DNA and Mitochondrial DNA, Purakjelia felt when a Y Hg C2* M217 and mtDNA Hg C, Z, D and G (M Type) are a first human who developed a "Classic Asiatic" phenotype. He/She also told when an ancient Sinitic People who often associated with a Y Hg O* M175 and an mtDNA Hg B and F (R Type) aren't a people who developed an "Asiatic" phenotype. Purakjelia don't like with the term of a "Mongoloid" race because another people too often to claim all Far East Asians are a members of a "Mongoloid" race especially a Northern Mongoloid People like an Altaian and a Tungusic people. Purakjelia also claimed when an Eurasians people have a Y Hg N, O, P, Q and R + mtDNA Hg B and F (R Type) even though he/she knows when a Y Hg CF + DE are a descendants from an Eurasian Adam Y Hg CT* M168 except some of an African Y Hg A and B. Unfortunately, Purakjelia don't talked too much about an mtDNA Haplogroups, or a simply, an Ancient Sinitic People are more connected to an Eurasian Y Hg F* M89, G, H, IJ and K* M9 - K2* M526 rather than a Mongolic Y Hg C* M130 - C2* M217 and a Y Hg DE* YAP+, Hg D* M174 and an mtDNA Hg M* and it's brances, Hg C, D, G, Z, etc. <br />I just followed Purakjelia opinion and it's sounds makesense to me. Well, the Human Genealogy Geneticists and Scientists must to searched furthermore with an Autosomal Regional DNA to classified a human ethnic group if it needed. Talking about these topic (Mongolic and Sinitic), frankly,..................make me sick and frustration with a lot of cybers commentators. I don't want to argued with all of you. If you're disagree with my opinion, please contact to Purakjelia and argued him/her about these topic! I'm tired to thinking about these topic. Thank you! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17782704383261192202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-22880055355792431712015-11-18T23:56:47.037+02:002015-11-18T23:56:47.037+02:00Dear Terryt,
With all do my respect, Purakjelia f...Dear Terryt,<br />With all do my respect, Purakjelia from Historum.com told when an ancient ancestors of a Proto Altaian / Mongolic and Proto Sinitic are quite different to each other. A Mongolic ancient ancestors are the "real" an "Asiatic" phenotype, not an ancient ancestors of a Proto Sinitic. He/She - "Purakjelia" explained with a long statement in Historum.com when a Western People are definitely wrong mistaken about Mongolian and Chinese peoples, culture, and their DNA. A Mongolic Y Hg C2* M217 and mtDNA Hg M - C, D, G and Z are a first people who developed an "Asiatic" phenotipe / features. He/She also thought when a Northern Chinese are a mixing from a South Chinese Paternal line, Y Hg O* M175 and a Mongolic Maternal line, mtDNA Hg C, D, G, Z....(all of them are an M Type) for detailed you or another commentators in this forum to searched "Purakjelia" from Historum.com and you're can argue with him/her itself because , to be frank.......I horribly coufused with a lot of cyber's opinion and arguments about these topic (Mongolic and Sinitic DNA, they're have an extremely different thinks and some of them have a Racial words like: " I'm a members of Y Hg O and i don't feel when i'm a Mongoloid peoples " or " You're guys, Mongolian failed to replacement your Y Haplogroup C3 / C2 M217 to the Chinese Men Y Haplogroup O M175 " and anothers opinions....etc2<br />These topics make me sick and frustrated so much. Only 1 statement that all of DNA Genealogy cyber's agreed: a Y Chromosome DNA and a Mitochondrial DNA don't responsible for an individual physical appearance at all! But to another thinks,..............blahblahblah, I frustrated, frankly...... <br /> Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17782704383261192202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-33035120655801147242015-11-18T03:44:05.339+02:002015-11-18T03:44:05.339+02:00" Some people believes when an "Asiatic&..." Some people believes when an "Asiatic"/Classic Mongoloid phenotype are developed together, a Y Hg C, Hg N, Hg O, Hg Q and mtDNA Hg M, N and R, not a single Haplogroup". <br /><br />I agree completely that not just single male and female haplogroups were involved. However my thinking is largely of individual branches within those large groupings. For example not all Y-DNA C are Mongoloid phenotype, just C2-M217. And by no means are all mt-DNAs M, N and R Mongoloid. In other words I believe the Mongoloid phenotype either introgressed into, or developed within, an already mixed population, probably somewhere in what is now northern China or Inner Mongolia. terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.com