tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post4707553955560332604..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Y-chromosome polymorphisms in Russia (Bellusci et al. 2010)Dienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-52148943588174812882010-04-18T22:31:59.810+03:002010-04-18T22:31:59.810+03:00Curious, could you send me the paper too? Thanks.
...Curious, could you send me the paper too? Thanks.<br /><br />finn1031@gmail.comMasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03226049899081714570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-33300174489931574392010-04-14T07:52:42.446+03:002010-04-14T07:52:42.446+03:00I've received it, thanks Curious.I've received it, thanks Curious.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-70721145241453039102010-04-14T07:40:12.138+03:002010-04-14T07:40:12.138+03:00You should have it.You should have it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00302612355907811087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-89744325750400843672010-04-14T07:36:04.102+03:002010-04-14T07:36:04.102+03:00My email:
gedoloth@yahoo.comMy email:<br /><br />gedoloth@yahoo.comOnur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-60526300796008239832010-04-14T07:33:20.480+03:002010-04-14T07:33:20.480+03:00I am going to bed now so I probably will not be ab...I am going to bed now so I probably will not be able to give it away for 10-15 hours<br />(unless you respond real fast).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00302612355907811087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-15641914297802930482010-04-14T07:30:55.539+03:002010-04-14T07:30:55.539+03:00If you want it I need your email.If you want it I need your email.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00302612355907811087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-74605994144314263862010-04-14T06:58:21.899+03:002010-04-14T06:58:21.899+03:00Can you put the link?Can you put the link?Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-62886397176965633112010-04-14T00:40:31.622+03:002010-04-14T00:40:31.622+03:00I have the paper
And it says that the Caucasians ...I have the paper <br />And it says that the Caucasians <br />have a high frequency of J and implies that the Mari do not.<br />Honestly I don't think the two groups are closely related even when you consider y-chromosomes.<br />(The paper is a disappointment it does not contain any really useful information)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00302612355907811087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-49771864934723004502010-04-13T03:46:48.133+03:002010-04-13T03:46:48.133+03:00Andrew, until reading the full paper, our disputat...Andrew, until reading the full paper, our disputation on this study doesn't go beyond speculation. Still, my two alternative explanations deserve to be investigated in detail.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-4340971819988356632010-04-12T22:47:52.248+03:002010-04-12T22:47:52.248+03:00The point on the Azeris is well taken and doesn...The point on the Azeris is well taken and doesn't really detract from the general concept that there is genetic similarity between very geographically distant populations.<br /><br />"Looking at these anomalies, two different explanations come to my mind: 1) Sampling is insufficient for some or all of the populations tested. 2) Y-chromosome is too flexible and unreliable as an indicator of overall genetic distance between populations. Of course both explanations can be partially true."<br /><br />I doubt it. When you have non-independent samples, like genetics drawn from a ethnically and linguistically homogeneous villages or cities, you can get away with smaller sample sizes than you can with a random sample.<br /><br />Also, the cultural distinctions of the Maki Mountain people, Sami and Caucasian populations makes you expect them to be outliers. The Maki are the last pagans in Europe. The Sami are the least settled people of Europe. The Caucasian language map is a widely divergent checkerboard where totally unrelated language families are spoken the next valley over.<br /><br />Discontinuities is isolated mountain relict populations in both language and population genetics are common. When old populations or cultures are wiped out everywhere else, they are likely to survive in the mountains.<br /><br />Dagestanis have majority J1 haplotypes despite being in the North Caucuses a distribution discontinuous with the Near Eastern semitic herders where this is also common. The Pyrenees, the Nuba Mountain (e.g. Kordofanian languages), the Caucuses and the Himalayas (e.g. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusunda_language" rel="nofollow">Kusunda</a> which is probably an <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15056764" rel="nofollow">Indo-Pacific language</a> and its speakers are distinct in appearance from those in surrounding areas), all have relict linguistic popuations. The multiple languages and cultures of Switzerland are only possible with massive decentralization and weak central goverment (granting near sovereign autonomy to county sized regions).Andrew Oh-Willekehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02537151821869153861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-69381811130265205852010-04-10T06:02:03.057+03:002010-04-10T06:02:03.057+03:00Y-Chromosoms are only half of the story.
That wou...<i>Y-Chromosoms are only half of the story.</i><br /><br />That would be over-optimistic. I think Y-chromosomes are not even a quarter of the story, maybe even much less. Worse still, there isn't a more or less fixed ratio of overall genetic diversity that we can confidently deduce from the Y-chromosome. These factors make Y-chromosome practically useless as a tool for measuring overall genetic diversity. We must make genome-wide studies, and whole-genome studies if feasible, to be able to learn something real about the overall genetic diversity and distances of populations.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-91998256000339008352010-04-10T05:49:38.490+03:002010-04-10T05:49:38.490+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-33722369869731631062010-04-10T05:34:47.198+03:002010-04-10T05:34:47.198+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-15120936421629053472010-04-10T05:25:08.768+03:002010-04-10T05:25:08.768+03:00Seriously,does anyone have the results? They would...Seriously,does anyone have the results? They would be very interesting.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00302612355907811087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-20106176170204621372010-04-10T03:50:01.055+03:002010-04-10T03:50:01.055+03:00"Y-chromosome is too flexible and unreliable ..."Y-chromosome is too flexible and unreliable as an indicator of overall genetic distance between populations."<br /><br />Thats totaly what I think.<br /><br />1. Y-Chromosoms are only half of the story.<br /><br />2. Gendrift may be far stronger/faster than expected and totaly dismantle whatever we are trying to find out.<br /><br />I tell you, its astrology. Is reading tea leaves.<br /><br />Face it: this cloud is NOT a face. Even if it may look like it.Fantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969348276219179258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-6295942723263396202010-04-10T03:42:42.893+03:002010-04-10T03:42:42.893+03:00We should not make any conclusions until we have a...<i>We should not make any conclusions until we have access to the paper.</i><br /><br />Of course. I should have made that clear in my post.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-16830203039760580942010-04-10T03:36:04.201+03:002010-04-10T03:36:04.201+03:00We should not make any conclusions until we have a...We should not make any conclusions until we have access to the paper.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00302612355907811087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-5122054597977192372010-04-10T03:25:36.453+03:002010-04-10T03:25:36.453+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00302612355907811087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-66914572725134800912010-04-10T00:49:04.065+03:002010-04-10T00:49:04.065+03:00The closeness of the Sami to the Georgians is also...<i>The closeness of the Sami to the Georgians is also notable. The two are at the opposite extremes of former Soviet Europe, and do not share a language group, but are populations least marked by recent immigration.</i><br /><br />You are only taking into account the Georgians of Tbilisi. Your hypothesis collapses when you also take into account the Georgians of Adjaria. The Adjarian Georgians are more distant to the Saamis than the Azeris are.<br /><br /><i>The Georgians and the Sami are also the closest two populations to the Mari Mountain outlier.</i><br /><br />There isn't any significant difference between the Georgian (the average of the two Georgian populations) - Mari Mountain population distance and the Azeri - Mari Mountain population distance. <br /><br />The real amazing thing is how the Udmurts, Mordvins, Bashkirs, Komi people, Russians and even Byelarussians can be more distant to the Mari Mountain people than the Georgians and Azeris are, despite being geographically closer to the Mari territory. It is especially amazing how two neighboring Finno-Permic peoples like the Udmurts and Mari people can be so genetically distant to each other! <br /><br />Looking at these anomalies, two different explanations come to my mind: 1) Sampling is insufficient for some or all of the populations tested. 2) Y-chromosome is too flexible and unreliable as an indicator of overall genetic distance between populations. Of course both explanations can be partially true.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-11116970839662415062010-04-10T00:43:38.912+03:002010-04-10T00:43:38.912+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-61665698531048140672010-04-10T00:40:31.815+03:002010-04-10T00:40:31.815+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-61392435707968163042010-04-10T00:14:02.889+03:002010-04-10T00:14:02.889+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-51830683324716575792010-04-10T00:07:45.972+03:002010-04-10T00:07:45.972+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-51713448265731530612010-04-10T00:02:52.865+03:002010-04-10T00:02:52.865+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-20506807877523191372010-04-09T21:42:35.533+03:002010-04-09T21:42:35.533+03:00Does anyone have the strs?
anyone who gives me the...Does anyone have the strs?<br />anyone who gives me the strs will<br />be rewarded (because I have access to science direct via university.)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00302612355907811087noreply@blogger.com