tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post41324312002216193..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Comparison between morphological and genetic data for Egyin Gol MongoliansDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-25761656051363976932010-05-31T22:51:49.871+03:002010-05-31T22:51:49.871+03:00Aside from C3(xC3c), N1c-Tat and Q-M242, those R1a...Aside from C3(xC3c), N1c-Tat and Q-M242, those R1a1a are not so surprising. <br />We all know the rise of Xiongnu empire has something to do with IE-speaking Scythians.<br />The presence of H, J, R1b1b2, O2b and O3 says Xiongnu is united clans of different ethnic origins.Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03226049899081714570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-15531605519051996262010-05-31T21:30:18.092+03:002010-05-31T21:30:18.092+03:00To Aaron:
Wasn't grave 81 confirmed by SNP te...To Aaron:<br /><br />Wasn't grave 81 confirmed by SNP testing to be Q-M242?<br /><br />http://konglong.5d6d.com/userdirs/8/6/konglong/attachments/month_1005/10053010243a9c28278442abbd.jpg<br /><br />http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/05/ancient-y-chromosome-studies.htmlMasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03226049899081714570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-36770575440438429552010-05-31T18:17:46.904+03:002010-05-31T18:17:46.904+03:00Grave 69 is likely M269, and grave 81 is a possibi...Grave 69 is likely M269, and grave 81 is a possibility of some R1b variety if other markers hadn't failed. AFAIK R1b1* has not been found in Central Asia with the exception of a single Mongolian on ysearch. All the R1b has been R1b1b1 or R1b1b2 to date.AWoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14966600445259901063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-31984601744056044812010-05-31T00:10:10.090+03:002010-05-31T00:10:10.090+03:00"If it's really R1b, R1b-P25(xM269) or R1..."If it's really R1b, R1b-P25(xM269) or R1b-M73 are also possible, because these haplogroups are more common in Central Asia. What's your opinion?"<br /><br />In truth I don't really know. STR haplotypes give me headaches, really. I have looked only to some extent those belonging to R1b1b2 but they are still quite messy and can only be addressed in large populations. I would suggest to SNP-test the bones... but guess it won't be. :(Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-48162350597217796252010-05-30T21:23:05.519+03:002010-05-30T21:23:05.519+03:00Yes, I think the samples are more likely to be O2b...Yes, I think the samples are more likely to be O2b.<br />If it's really R1b, R1b-P25(xM269) or R1b-M73 are also possible, because these haplogroups are more common in Central Asia. What's your opinion? I remember it was said that SNP testing will be done on these ancient samples.Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03226049899081714570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-88175151663448139402010-05-30T18:34:16.169+03:002010-05-30T18:34:16.169+03:00I may be wrong but a quick comparison with the hap...I may be wrong but a quick comparison with the haplotypes of <a href="http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v13/n12/full/5201482a.html" rel="nofollow">Alonso'05</a> (using only DYS 19-390-391-392-393), suggests that, if individual #65 was R1b1b2 (as Natsuya suggests with 60% of chance), then he should belong to a very frequent haplotype of, <a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_x6Y4ZgFsZdY/StODh2481zI/AAAAAAAAALs/FctZgk1G39o/s1600/R1b%2Bhaplotype%2Btree.gif" rel="nofollow">probably</a>, R1b1b2a1(xR1b1b2a1a) that is common in Central Europe, specially in Belgium and Austria. <br /><br />But they would be as logical, at least, to be O2b. Sincerely, it is most difficult to discuss only on Y-DNA STR haplotypes, we really need SNP-based classifications to make any sense in most cases.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-45679731879180131152010-05-30T16:17:03.490+03:002010-05-30T16:17:03.490+03:00If the samples of grave 69 and 76 are really R1b(....If the samples of grave 69 and 76 are really R1b(...), anyway their YCAII=18-21 and 23-23 demonstrate, I think, that they belong to the most ancient R1b1* of Asian descent (probably generated from the Western one with 18-23 or 18-22 by a RecLOH) and have nothing to do with the ancestor of all Western European subclades. See what I have written in another thread speaking with Argiedude.<br />If Maju is right, probably they came from Europe at least before the Younger Dryas.Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-87893407678229141552010-05-30T12:10:16.603+03:002010-05-30T12:10:16.603+03:00Sorry, the link I provided seems dead, here's ...Sorry, the link I provided seems dead, here's the new link, Y-STR matching of the samples from 3 sectors:<br /><br />http://konglong.5d6d.com/userdirs/8/6/konglong/attachments/month_1005/10053010243a9c28278442abbd.jpgMasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03226049899081714570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-6223816359620119792010-05-30T00:42:06.145+03:002010-05-30T00:42:06.145+03:00Y-STR matching of the samples:
http://konglong.5d...Y-STR matching of the samples:<br /><br />http://konglong.5d6d.com/userdirs/8/6/konglong/attachments/month_1005/1005300046ea65228cdd515bad.jpgMasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03226049899081714570noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-28156798952338570382010-05-30T00:19:40.097+03:002010-05-30T00:19:40.097+03:00"The high frequency in Kazakhs and Yakuts, wi..."The high frequency in Kazakhs and Yakuts, with a little spillover in both China and eastern Europe is certainly consistent with a Turkic origin of this haplotype".<br /><br />Without really questioning this conclusion, I must mention that you are in fact getting almost double apportion of matches in Moscow (1/81) than in Yakutia (1/183) at the YHRD search. However the Kazakh connection seems solid.<br /><br />Notable for me is that 11% of mtDNA lineages are of South/West Eurasian origin (misleadingly reported as "European" in the paper): U2, U5a1a and J1. It is somewhat notable because the location of the site is right south of Lake Baikal, suggesting that these lineages could have arrived either in Neolithic or even Paleolithic flows (<a href="http://paleo.sscnet.ucla.edu/BrantCA2001.pdf" rel="nofollow">there is a mild penetration of "Western" techno-cultures from Altai into Mongolia c. 30 Ka ago</a>).Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-37379529639415803222010-05-29T18:58:12.487+03:002010-05-29T18:58:12.487+03:00The above comment is factually incorrect on two di...The above comment is factually incorrect on two different counts. One Polish C3 in Ysearch is from Minsk Mazowiecki, which is within modern Polish borders. The other Polish C3 in Ysearch is recorded as from Ruskati. I have not identified the precise location of that town either, but the individual is ethnically Polish regardless of recent border changes.Lackohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06256223561135018103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-28629516922583988392010-05-29T10:20:19.457+03:002010-05-29T10:20:19.457+03:00There aren't any ethnic Poles with C3 in Ysear...There aren't any ethnic Poles with C3 in Ysearch, just people with ancestors born in the former eastern Polish provinces, like in some town called Ruskati. God knows where that is now.Polakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08791738703122670119noreply@blogger.com