tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post3618919962041468956..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Oxhide ingots in Scandinavian rock artDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-30007188246477468962015-03-11T18:43:45.688+02:002015-03-11T18:43:45.688+02:00Can we please put to bed the notion that Minoan cu...Can we please put to bed the notion that Minoan culture was ended by the Thera eruption? That volcanic event has been conclusively dated to around the end of the 17th Century BCE, whereas Minoan culture on Crete continued and flourished for another 150 years until the mid 15th Century. This has got to be one of the most pernicious and persistant misunderstandings in Bronze Age archeology. Knossos fell to Mycenae, not Santorini!Rainierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10556742835593492095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-21184656458553991992015-03-11T18:40:51.765+02:002015-03-11T18:40:51.765+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Rainierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10556742835593492095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-4314320879913386702015-03-11T12:20:42.562+02:002015-03-11T12:20:42.562+02:00http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Bronze-Society-Transmis...http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Bronze-Society-Transmissions-Transformations/dp/0521604664batmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-35236180181933154362015-03-11T12:16:00.263+02:002015-03-11T12:16:00.263+02:00From Crete to Gotland:
http://www.guteinfo.com/?id...From Crete to Gotland:<br />http://www.guteinfo.com/?id=1275batmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-43781799516674591602015-03-11T12:11:09.313+02:002015-03-11T12:11:09.313+02:00"the archeology shows that the scandanavians ..."the archeology shows that the scandanavians didn't have the shipping technology to journey to the med until after the Minoan/Mycenean traders brought the bronze age ,by boat."<br /><br />This is merely an assumption, using the "absence of proof to prove absence". Truth is archaeology have proven that Scandianvians as well as other N Europeans had boats already 11.500 years ago.<br /><br />The assumption you use to "prove" your point is the question of sails on the early boats. This IS a much debated question among Scandinavian and Brittish archaeologist still today. <br /><br />Not long ago a potsherd was found in England, from neolithic time, that had a ship incised with a mast and a sail clearly visible...<br /><br />So this entire question is FAR from settled. What's more relevant is that Bronze Age Baltics and Bronze Age Mediterranean cultures where closely interacting - basically along the river-routes through central Europe (Wisla-Donau) and the Cutcuteni-area, run by the so-called "Wends"/"Veneti". Check out Herodot. <br /><br />On the west-side its were the Seine/Rhine-Rhone-connection, ending up in Marseilles, ran by the "celts". Google "amber-road" and start thinking.batmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-42385222548119813382015-03-10T21:18:09.445+02:002015-03-10T21:18:09.445+02:00Jim
I agree with what you said, the overland rout...Jim <br />I agree with what you said, the overland routes were well used and very ancient as well. The people of the agean and baltic seas traded spondylus and obsidian for amber long before metals were the focus of trade.<br /> But overland trade is also fraught with risk, bandits and shifting political structures would have taken a toll on profits. <br /> After the Minoans gained control of the metals trade in the med they expanded to Britain and scandanavia. <br /> Although there was land routes the bronze age came to scandanavia via coastal routes.ron quirorianohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13962646540029248884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-74111506856308417272015-03-09T18:11:19.083+02:002015-03-09T18:11:19.083+02:00"the archeology shows that the scandanavians ..."the archeology shows that the scandanavians didn't have the shipping technology to journey to the med until after the Minoan/Mycenean traders brought the bronze age ,by boat."<br /><br />But the land route through eastern Europe was very active at that time. Bronze and the source metals were high value commodities and would have been worth shipping overland.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07187836541591828806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-33588761895654385292015-03-05T08:36:27.793+02:002015-03-05T08:36:27.793+02:00Well there's a spike of J2a men in southern Sw...Well there's a spike of J2a men in southern Sweden I've wondered about for quite a while. But I can't find a link to look at the clades. M67 and/or M92 would tell me they're probably Minoan descendants. Or Roman. M530 - by my reckoning - would indicate Neolithic.<br /><br />I hear rumblings we made it all the way to Michigan. I reject that out of hand. If something's amazing cool and makes my people look good I always do that. I don't want my "wants" to poison my observations. Same thing if I don't want something to be true: I work on the assumption it is. There's nothing more gratifying than a failing to falsify your position despite throwing everything you got at it. :-)<br /><br />Nevertheless I note: if we had a trade route to Michigan, a colony in southern Scandinavia would make sense.Pneumatikonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05135543740306228320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-31314575793442228152015-03-04T23:08:23.128+02:002015-03-04T23:08:23.128+02:00Nick T,
I was referring to (Minoan/Mycenean) bronz...Nick T,<br />I was referring to (Minoan/Mycenean) bronze daggers recovered from graves near the henge. <br /> The so called dagger carvings on the stones themselves, I believe, are actually a representation of a very energetic meteror shower, that's just my opinion, based on native American rock art with similar images.<br /> I would tend to disagree with this statement from the article,these two discoveries suggest that Scandinavians were travelling to the Mediterranean, rather than acting through a middle man. " , the archeology shows that the scandanavians didn't have the shipping technology to journey to the med until after the Minoan/Mycenean traders brought the bronze age ,by boat.<br /><br /> ron quirorianohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13962646540029248884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-37864792140155299722015-03-04T20:20:22.126+02:002015-03-04T20:20:22.126+02:00"Cyprus" oxides? rotf.. I don't... "Cyprus" oxides? rotf.. I don't think so.<br /><br />http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/WakefieldJS1.php?p=4<br /><br /><br /> Oxhides were made in all of the world and made of many metals . <br /> Alashirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13726181228173268004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-69839916741653736212015-03-04T11:42:31.326+02:002015-03-04T11:42:31.326+02:00Hi Ron,
I'm afraid the notion that 'Minoa...Hi Ron,<br /><br />I'm afraid the notion that 'Minoan' (actually Mycenaean, according to Atkinson in the 1950s) daggers were carved on the stones at Stonehenge has long ago been abandoned. The three carvings of daggers are too indistinct (even in the recent laser scan) to have any hope of identifying them as a specific type of dagger.Nick Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03936982799680681315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-66525244718579289932015-03-04T08:44:46.602+02:002015-03-04T08:44:46.602+02:00The spread-sheet of metalurgy seems to speak about...The spread-sheet of metalurgy seems to speak about a N->S movement:<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_Age<br /><br />The amount of grip-swords found in Europe seems to underline the hub of the bronze-age development:<br /><br />http://www.catshamans.se/essae/0stenri/0stenr.htmbatmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-78727713727928024702015-03-04T00:23:54.415+02:002015-03-04T00:23:54.415+02:00Thanks Jim,
I missed that post, I've been tryi...Thanks Jim,<br />I missed that post, I've been trying to find the article on the Mycenean domestic goods found near one of the stone ships.ron quirorianohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13962646540029248884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-64259712111530437992015-03-03T21:45:58.954+02:002015-03-03T21:45:58.954+02:00"After the minoan trade empire collapsed from..."After the minoan trade empire collapsed from the loss of thera, their client states in greece, the myceneans, continued the trade and pushed into scandanavia."<br /><br />http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-nordic-razor.htmlJimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07187836541591828806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-41859838568945000412015-03-03T18:48:26.788+02:002015-03-03T18:48:26.788+02:00Im surprised that people are still flummexd by dir...Im surprised that people are still flummexd by direct trade to the baltic from the med.<br />The minoans cut out the iberian middle men and took trade to the british isles, minoan daggers have been found at stonehenge.<br />After the minoan trade empire collapsed from the loss of thera, their client states in greece, the myceneans, continued the trade and pushed into scandanavia.<br />The stone ships mark the locations where the ships put in, the scandanavian elite class even took on the mycenean practice of being clean shaven, with their newly aquired bronze razors.ron quirorianohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13962646540029248884noreply@blogger.com