tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post3070912062742842213..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: mtDNA of Libyan TuaregsDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-22564773389783701442009-05-26T15:12:25.450+03:002009-05-26T15:12:25.450+03:00V haplogroup, my mtDNA haplogroup, has not been fo...<I>V haplogroup, my mtDNA haplogroup, has not been found in the remains from ancient cemeteries in the Basque zone of Iberia</I>.<br /><br />This was the main rationale for some to argue that aDNA "disproved" any connection with modern Basques. Yet modern Basques in the areas sampled in that study are very low in mtDNA V (3%). Gipuzkoans are high (11%) but no cemetery was sampled in that province. <br /><br />MtDNA V anyhow seems more directly linked to other populations anyhow. In some studies Catalans were high in this lineage, while in others they were not. <br /><br /><I>This lack gives the native to Iberia claim less grounding</I>.<br /><br />Can you guys stop mixing Basques and Iberians? We are clearly in two different genetic and archaeological provinces (though interconnected within the context of Europe). Basques would be if anything descendants of the peoples of the Franco-Cantabrian area, north of the mountains and in general, notwithstanding some Neolithic flows via the Ebro, we relate most tightly with Gascons (and surely other Occitans too). These peoples do not live in Iberia.<br /><br /><I>... it is pointless to attribute origins to haplogroups that originate in mostly or wholly Caucasoid people which is the geographical area from Western Eurasia to North and Northeast Africa. Europe is a mere extension of Asia</I>. <br /><br />But North African H (and V) is mostly a subset of Iberian variability. HV coalesced in West Asia but its descendants H1 and H3 (and surely V) did not. IMO, H itself shows clear signs of European-specific origin and, having that striking starlike structure (that I can only compare with mtDNA M because of the huge number of sublineages stemming directly from the basal node), suggests a very fast expansion within Europe, in Aurignacian and/or Gravettian periods.Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-42897959265160205212009-05-26T14:32:06.826+03:002009-05-26T14:32:06.826+03:00Interesting reading these PhD theses. Shows the wo...Interesting reading these PhD theses. Shows the work you have to do to get a doctorate.<br /><br />H1, H3 and V mtDNA haplogroups are most frequent in Iberia, taking into account the lack of diversity in the mtDNA V found in the Saami. The three mtDNA haplogroups are thought to be native to Iberia and spread from there after the last glacial maximum. There have been studies on those haplogroups done previously that show those conclusions. V haplogroup, my mtDNA haplogroup, has not been found in the remains from ancient cemeteries in the Basque zone of Iberia. This lack gives the native to Iberia claim less grounding. It could well have originated in NW Africa. Its origins are not resolved.<br /><br />While I enjoyed the thesis, I think these type of studies are flawed with assumptions of ultimate origins. H1, H3 and V mtDNA haplogroups might be European in origin, ultimately the source of HV is in the Middle East as is most subclades of mtDNA H which means it is pointless to attribute origins to haplogroups that originate in mostly or wholly Caucasoid people which is the geographical area from Western Eurasia to North and Northeast Africa. Europe is a mere extension of Asia.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-19966436620511992982009-05-20T20:13:49.354+03:002009-05-20T20:13:49.354+03:00Many thanks for the link.Many thanks for the link.Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00999270356447668208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-92171119679699814842009-05-20T19:40:37.129+03:002009-05-20T19:40:37.129+03:00Link is broken. From Mathilda's I got this link (P...Link is broken. From Mathilda's I got <A HREF="http://dspace.uniroma2.it/dspace/bitstream/2108/646/1/PhD_Tesi_Ottoni.pdf" REL="nofollow">this link</A> (PDF). <br /><br />It's a long paper, rather an e-book (a doctoral thesis in fact), but very worth reading, as it does not only analyzes mtDNA but also makes a comprehensive review at the beginning of African, and even some European, prehistoric and gentic info. <br /><br />It is very interesting that all reported Tuareg samples are 2/3 HV (mostly H1, and mostly with the CRS haplotype motiff - not the same as "CRS haplogroup", which would be H2a). This links with North African high presence of SW European-derived HV (H1, H3 and V basically) but is much more marked possibly because of founder effect. Instead typical North African haplogroup U6 is absent, while the fraction of L(xM,N) is larger than among average North Africans (though in many cases the Tuareg L haplotypes are close to a possibly East African root).Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.com