tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post2954158420394938987..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Why is Condoleezza stunned?Dienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-55081373817956484592015-09-06T23:26:35.272+03:002015-09-06T23:26:35.272+03:00Ma ba, You have pretty much summed it up.Ma ba, You have pretty much summed it up.Arianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04523864117462758577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-79778238558160631802012-06-12T14:41:52.061+03:002012-06-12T14:41:52.061+03:00Thanks, Zack. One last question: How do you look t...Thanks, Zack. One last question: How do you look to people in southern Europe? I am asking this question assuming that your white ancestors are all from southern Europe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-23014220880461117012012-06-12T13:19:22.804+03:002012-06-12T13:19:22.804+03:00I assume Dienekes approves of carrying on this sid...<i>I assume Dienekes approves of carrying on this side discussion since he posted your last comment Romero</i><br /><br />I have zoned out of this discussion tbh.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-55856079730035214762012-06-12T08:13:07.091+03:002012-06-12T08:13:07.091+03:00I assume Dienekes approves of carrying on this sid...I assume Dienekes approves of carrying on this side discussion since he posted your last comment Romero<br /><br />"full white" would be a misnomer to those interested in the topics posted here I think so maybe I shouldn't have treated it seriously.<br /><br />The groups I listed I resemble. In Istanbul many people assumed I was a Turk. When I am in Latin American countries people always assume I speak Spanish. In Germany nobody assumes I am ethnically German.zack khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18125279050151129342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-43529087715803972912012-06-10T23:53:40.810+03:002012-06-10T23:53:40.810+03:00mo ba's comments and First Grade's answer ...mo ba's comments and First Grade's answer are so funny that I have not stopped laughing. Deineke, your site is great and many thanks for allowing a plethora of opinions.ejmohrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05646433297871604787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-52910400868711496102012-06-10T18:10:48.692+03:002012-06-10T18:10:48.692+03:00Chris and zack - I think we Americans from The Sou...Chris and zack - I think we Americans from The South can all agree that the vast majority here have at least some admixture, whether African into Eurpoean, Native American into European and vice versa. I've lived in South Florida all of my 60 years and as you but maybe not others realize, South Florida has undergone extreme demographic changes the last fifty years and now shows more ethnic and racial diversity (I prefer the term "heritage diversity") than I think anywhere else in the world. The large population of Haitians, Bahamians and Jamaicans have been added to the African Americans that earlier moved here from other areas in The South. Hispanics (the term used locally) comprise 70% of the population in Miami and come from many countries in Central and South America, in addition to Cuba. As you can imagine, there has been considerable intermarriage over the last fifty years, myself included. I would think South Florida would be a dream location for anthropologists and geneticists and I'm very disappointed that Dr. Sykes chose very few locales to do his limited study on his vacation trip across the country. He would have here found more admixture than he could ever hope to study.Mark Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03792117663748801194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-7690307390742466622012-06-10T14:11:17.793+03:002012-06-10T14:11:17.793+03:00"I look something like a southern European to..."I look something like a southern European to a Turk from Istanbul to someone from South America who is mostly European."<br /><br />Sorry, I didn't understand this sentence. Could you reframe or explain it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-54952415782608642302012-06-10T03:09:10.219+03:002012-06-10T03:09:10.219+03:00Romero
Depends on how perceptive someone is. I l...Romero<br /><br />Depends on how perceptive someone is. I look something like a southern European to a Turk from Istanbul to someone from South America who is mostly European. <br /><br />My sister is fairer with green eyes and was born with blond hair but has almond shaped eyes. Really perceptive people might note something exotic in her heritage too compared to a typical European American<br /><br />Another Interesting thing is our mtDNA halogroup is L3f dispite having very little apparent sub Saharran African in my autosomal admixture estimates at allzack khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18125279050151129342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-177059230003283032012-06-10T00:06:12.708+03:002012-06-10T00:06:12.708+03:00"In contrast I consider myself white yet all ..."In contrast I consider myself white yet all the admixture programs indicate something like 12-14% Amerindian"<br /><br />How do you look racially speaking? Do you look full white?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-47509635172225522412012-06-09T18:48:36.781+03:002012-06-09T18:48:36.781+03:00@ Chris
In contrast I consider myself white yet a...@ Chris<br /><br />In contrast I consider myself white yet all the admixture programs indicate something like 12-14% Amerindian <br /><br />I had a Tejano grandmother from the border area with Mexico<br /><br />I believe she would have called herself white ( with some knowledge of her native background)<br /><br />Indentity in the Americas is becoming very interesting with DNA testingzack khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18125279050151129342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-40853058933423847672012-06-09T18:18:45.649+03:002012-06-09T18:18:45.649+03:00Chris, didn't the idea that "some white f...Chris, didn't the idea that "some white families' legendary Indian ancestors may have been invented to hide African admixtures" long predate the DNA genealogy? For example, it is the premise behind Sinclair Lewis's "Kingsblood" which have been written back in the 1940s: a white genealogy buff chases down a tale of their Native American great-grandmother and discovers a black ancestor.<br /><br />Sinclair Lewis must have been inspired by stories of white kin of NAACP leadership such as W.F.White. Their tight-knit group of families and friends include many generations of people of white appearance. A few of them actually chose to identify as whites. The genetic underpinning of these stories may be interesting in one additional aspect, as they imply some level of endogamy in this educated, upper class African American class (possibly akin to the one in South Africa's coloureds). But how widespread and how strong this kind of endogamy may have been in the broader demographics (including Condoleezza Rice's ancestors), I have no idea. It's always thought that in Europe, social class alone imposed endogamy, but in America, the population was more "upwardly mobile", resulting in a greater rate of intermarriage across the class boundaries. But historically, this upward mobility might have been a white-only phenomenon, so I wouldn't be surprised if the black upper class exhibited a greater degree of endogamy.MOCKBAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05150628026789690963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-76106024501112059872012-06-09T12:23:14.462+03:002012-06-09T12:23:14.462+03:00i am from one of the several "hybrid" gr...i am from one of the several "hybrid" groups in the east, (the dominickers of the florida panhandle). most of us are taught we are creek or lumbee indian, but when i got my results from 23andMe, it reported mostly european with a small amount of african (this despite strong documentary evidence of descent from several removal era citizens of creek nation and my being cousin to several poarch creek indians. i have lived in the muscogee creek as well as cherokee nations in oklahoma for 15 years now. one third of the county i live in are enrolled citizens of the cherokee nations, but almost none show any phenotypical traits of native americans. the cherokee nation has 300,000 plus members, with the average blood quantum being below 1/200,(according to a cousin workin in the enrollment office at MCN) an amount not detectable on the DNA tests, ive has several CNO friends experience the "Cherokee Paradox" already, them having no native blood shown on their test despite being cherokee nation citizens. i have read brian sykes new USA DNA, and it was a great and informative book, especially interesting was how all the southern whites they tested showed african ancestry, where as none of the northeasterners did. the south is full of ghosts and skeleton-filled closets. the jackson/calhoun county area of the panhandle is chock full of mixed race people passing as white, people who ive known for all my life, who fight hard everyday to be "white", and who have done this for generations. they pay little attention to the outside world. most are very uneducated. ive noticed a similar saituation among many of the small hybrid communities ive visited as a graduate student in anthropology in louisiana, north and south carolina, and south alabama. theres so much still hidden in the south, racially. the KKK is still very active in north fla. 16 years ago i and 2 other community members did surveillance of a Klan meeting. over 60 cars were present, hundreds of people. when we gave our info to the local FBI office in tallahassee, the agent, Mr Pelligrino said, "weve been watching that group for over 20 years...".we all need to be as openminded as possible as the huge changes brought about by DNA analysis impact people and communities...great changes are to come in identification for many.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-25637555522952524982012-06-08T21:39:32.430+03:002012-06-08T21:39:32.430+03:00@First Grade,
That "Zambian Space Program&qu...@First Grade,<br /><br />That "Zambian Space Program" video is priceless, I literally LOLed!pconroyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10312469574812832771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-84716590735183894282012-06-08T21:29:43.398+03:002012-06-08T21:29:43.398+03:00I really don't get why some people still nowad...I really don't get why some people still nowadays insists in this "racial pride" discourse. It wasn't evidenced that we belong to a only one species? Whit then to talk about "blacks", "whites" or "papuans" being proud of the achievements of individuals who, by chance share their external phenotype?<br /><br />I have predominant negroid phenotype, but I have also Portuguese heritage and nothing can prevent me to be proud of the achievements of Jews, Chinese of Punjabis. They are part of my HUMAN heritage!<br /><br /> "Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto"Robson Cruzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03399605711779030221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-19527973374004974892012-06-08T21:09:44.373+03:002012-06-08T21:09:44.373+03:00Dieneke,
I think you should not publish ma ba'...<i>Dieneke,<br /><br />I think you should not publish ma ba's posts, as they are full of incorrect assertions.</i><br /><br />I let some crap posts appear because they are useful in the future to be able to search for the users who post them.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-43523156876255101932012-06-08T15:19:01.243+03:002012-06-08T15:19:01.243+03:00Dieneke,
I think you should not publish ma ba'...Dieneke,<br /><br />I think you should not publish ma ba's posts, as they are full of incorrect assertions.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-84285803214345895602012-06-08T10:56:05.825+03:002012-06-08T10:56:05.825+03:00George, I simply mentioned the McWhiney book in a ...George, I simply mentioned the McWhiney book in a critical remark as an example of the kind of oversimplifying and misleading popular historical writing that's around which imply that European descended people of the South have single rather than multiple origins. <br /><br />The reference had no relation whatsoever to my remarks about African American history or any relation to Condoleezza Rice in particular.Amanda Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05997180528147657311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-19067105929428460702012-06-08T09:38:52.893+03:002012-06-08T09:38:52.893+03:00George brings up and quotes the SPLC. Please read ...George brings up and quotes the SPLC. Please read more about the Southern Poverty Law Center here:<br /><br />http://rkeefe57.wordpress.com/First Gradehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12696860747396864529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-6139847735956588452012-06-08T06:58:22.103+03:002012-06-08T06:58:22.103+03:00An earlier poster (Amanda S) said:
"This can...An earlier poster (Amanda S) said:<br /><br />"This can extend to whole communities as well as individuals. There are works of popular history such as "Born Fighting" and "Cracker Culture: Celtic Ways in the Old South" that make the claim that the European descended colonial origin population of the Old South is of predominantly Scots Irish (Ulster Scots) ancestry."<br /><br />The author of "Cracker Culture: Celtic Ways in the Old South" is Grady McWhiney. <br /><br />Book info: http://www.amazon.com/Cracker-Culture-Celtic-Ways-South/dp/0817304584<br /><br />Author info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grady_McWhiney<br /><br />Perhaps Amanda S didn't know that Grady McWhiney (1928 - 2006) was one of the founders of the League of the South and a mentor to its current leader, Michael Hill.<br /><br />Read what the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) has to say about this organization which they classify as<br />Neo-Confederate ... and in so many words a racist hate group. <br /><br />http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/league-of-the-south<br /><br />I believe Amanda S and other readers (Academics, Researchers, Lay Persons, etc,) should more carefully examine their postings.<br /><br />Specially so when it involves overt or covert racist organizations prior to posting about the ancestry / DNA results / admixture / etc. of an honarable African American such as former U.S. Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice. <br /><br />Here's some info from the SPLC site:<br /><br />** "From the start, the league’s board was dominated by academics. Its unofficial foundational text was Cracker Culture, a book by conservative history professor Grady McWhiney, one of Hill’s mentors, which asserts that the South was populated by immigrants from Celtic areas of England and constitutes a culture and population distinct from that of the North." "But it wasn’t long before it began seriously advocating a second secession, calling for a theocratic form of government, and openly advocating a return to “general European cultural hegemony” in the South."<br /><br />** "The League of the South is a neo-Confederate group that advocates for a second Southern secession and a society dominated by “European Americans."<br /><br />** "The league believes the “godly” nation it wants to form should be run by an “Anglo-Celtic” (read: white) elite that would establish a Christian theocratic state and politically dominate blacks and other minorities."<br /><br />** "Hill publicly defended antebellum slavery as “God-ordained” and another league leader described segregation as necessary to racial “integrity” of both races, black and white alike. Hill called for a hierarchal society composed of “superiors, equals and inferiors, each protected in their legal privileges” and attacked egalitarianism as a “fatal heresy.” He said people other than white Christians would be allowed to live in his South, but only if they bowed to “the cultural dominance of the Anglo-Celtic people and their institutions.” <br /><br />Dienekes says in his post: "I can't claim to have any experience on African Americans ..."<br /><br />I do understand that sentiment somewhat concerning African Americans from a variety of discipline from a white person who is not a citizen or resident in the USA or from persons in the USA who have not witnessed both overt and covert racism based on skin color or other phenotypes when they pass judgement on a person or population group.<br /><br />So we all learn. And, perhaps Dienekes can also and escape his anthropological box and better understand African American and why the election of President Obama in November 2008 came about and the backstories of how he defeated Hilary Clinton (a fine U.S. Secretary of State) in the 2008 Democratic Primaries. <br /><br />I do agree with Dienkes when he says: "Hopefully, as knowledge about genetics spreads, society as a whole will become more enlightened about its members."Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06131895590928788357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-55855506845052983872012-06-08T06:53:15.048+03:002012-06-08T06:53:15.048+03:00"It seems that slave-holding was very common ..."It seems that slave-holding was very common among the Cherokee and other 'civilized' tribes, predating Eurpoean contact". <br /><br />I have no doubt that was the case, but I doubt very much that any of those slaves were of african origin in pre-European times.terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-66343207328879103822012-06-08T04:35:35.310+03:002012-06-08T04:35:35.310+03:00As someone pointed out earlier, Condoleeza Rice lo...As someone pointed out earlier, Condoleeza Rice looks very west-african in facial structure. She even has that gap between her incisors that's quite common among some blacks from that area. <br /><br />Her skin colour by itself wouldn't be a reason for her to imagine white admixture. While that skin tone isn't the most common, it's also not that rare in some ethnic groups in west-africa.ogunshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03109043719354594187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-90190926841805402752012-06-08T02:37:01.308+03:002012-06-08T02:37:01.308+03:00Is "Semitic" a race or are you limiting ...<i>Is "Semitic" a race or are you limiting it to "European-Caucasoid, Negroid, Eastern Asian"?</i><br /><br />A geneticist is apparently arguing that Jews are a distinct race:<br /><br />http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/dna-links-prove-jews-are-a-race-says-genetics-expert-1.428664Average Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12203996329459638052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-92037569063378507712012-06-08T02:28:38.988+03:002012-06-08T02:28:38.988+03:00Where were the IQ test when Africa was way more ad...<i>Where were the IQ test when Africa was way more advance than Europe??</i><br /><br />When was sub-Saharan Africa move advanced than Europe?Average Joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12203996329459638052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-70819195139592133022012-06-07T22:45:02.619+03:002012-06-07T22:45:02.619+03:00Re: Cherokee self-identification; please remember ...Re: Cherokee self-identification; please remember that the Cherokee were a Matriarchal society when the Europeans first arrived here. Traditionally, an individual considers themselves to be "Cherokee" through their ~matrilineal genes only, up to 7 generations back. That means if a person has a Cherokee 4-5 great-grandMOTHER ~directly ~matrilineally (regardless of all their other inheritance) -- they're ~technically one of the tribe. That makes sense to me, because mtDNA is generally inherited in exact replication (barring random mutations, of course). That's why it's so useful for tracing deep ancestry. I guess that would make more sense to people with Matriarchal ancestry; I notice people of Patriarchal ancestry usually don't seem to understand the concept. Donald Panther-Yates did a study of the presently existing maternal clans of the Cherokee, and found that each clan has its own unique ~signature, including at least one (the "Paint", or "White", clan) which is distinctly Caucasoid genetically. My understanding of that particular clan, furthermore, is that they generally weren't expected to marry outside their own clan, even though all of the other ones did, by tribal law.shenandoahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09220865518565583662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-16789843888282597812012-06-07T22:38:19.767+03:002012-06-07T22:38:19.767+03:00Its quite obvious she is surprised by the said % o...Its quite obvious she is surprised by the said % of supposed European admixture...not the admixture it self. With an average admixture rate of 12-20% she would have more than 3 times or twice the admixture of an average African American (Depending on what publication you choose)<br /><br />This is what probably surprised her.astenbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06946446840115831804noreply@blogger.com