tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post2150699939108567974..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Sub-Saharan admixture in West Eurasian groups (Moorjani et al. 2011)Dienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-73179113787992014422013-08-08T03:18:22.222+03:002013-08-08T03:18:22.222+03:00Well the arabs did conquer iberia and sicily, so i...Well the arabs did conquer iberia and sicily, so it does make sense that there would be significant ssa ancestry.<br />No offense, but you don't seem to have any academic credentials in genetic science, unlike the people who wrote the paper.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17135261314606033709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-64628178383964236552012-08-17T04:25:00.423+03:002012-08-17T04:25:00.423+03:00What's the actual % of SSA in all of these pop...What's the actual % of SSA in all of these populations if the Moorjani reports are wrong?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-7710878152283690462012-08-15T06:40:51.728+03:002012-08-15T06:40:51.728+03:00Is there a link where are the samples from ? Is there a link where are the samples from ? truthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08622344688109770244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-90186727622984338112012-08-07T00:28:13.219+03:002012-08-07T00:28:13.219+03:00Because the link that you just provided me with pr...Because the link that you just provided me with proves that it's bull-crap. There's no way that ALL Southern Italians have 2.7% SSA admixture. The most I've seen is 1% in Sicilians only. Mainland Italians don't even reach a full percentage mark as provided by your study. Doesn't the fact that you wrote this prove that they used some sort of agenda when doing this study?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-41061796781360625992012-08-06T09:28:55.510+03:002012-08-06T09:28:55.510+03:00Was there an agenda with the Moorjani study?
I se...<i>Was there an agenda with the Moorjani study?</i><br /><br />I see no reason why there would be.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-54067480862673313922012-08-06T07:31:15.546+03:002012-08-06T07:31:15.546+03:00Are there any other European populations besides I...Are there any other European populations besides Italians that have SSA ancestry? The numbers seem exaggerated in the Moorjani report. I looked over the link you provided with me. Go figures, Sicilians have 1%. All other Italian populations have 0.6% at most. That might even be noise. What are your thought's on that? It seems completley devoid in mainland Italians and absent in Northern Italians. Was there an agenda with the Moorjani study?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-46496428963546229562012-08-06T01:23:01.630+03:002012-08-06T01:23:01.630+03:00What is your idea that the picture of SSA ancestry...What is your idea that the picture of SSA ancestry is "false" based on? There is fairly good evidence for the introgression of African Y chromosomes and mtDNA in Italian populations, and this is consistent with a little Sub-Saharan autosomal ancestry detected there (order of 1%).<br /><br />These are the most recent estimates:<br /><br />https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadC1kRjhxcHNfSGhPYlUxbEI0VVZPR0E#gid=0Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-54369170457924507752012-08-06T01:02:37.942+03:002012-08-06T01:02:37.942+03:00Much thanks for this article. I was getting worrie...Much thanks for this article. I was getting worried when I originally read this. There's no WAY that the %'s of SSA could be that high in Italy. How come Greeks are never mentioned as having SSA. It's only the Italians that are ever mentioned. How about other Southern Europeans? It's not like they have a magic shield over them that protects them from Negroes. Furthermore, the blog you link us to "Genetic Structures of West Eurasians", paints a rather false picture of SSA ancestry in Southern Italians. It shows them as having lots of it, while Greeks have none? How can this be possible. What are the real %'s of admixture in Italians?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-57758338864050166772011-05-04T14:17:09.631+03:002011-05-04T14:17:09.631+03:00Why do you censor me and my work -like a "Naz...<i>Why do you censor me and my work -like a "Nazi" irreverent- and also shush impeding to publish my articles that authors, scientifics, colleagues and institutions welcomes? </i><br /><br /><br />The blog has a rule: avoid double-posting. You consistently flaunt that rule, by not only double- but also triple-, quadruple-, quintuple-, ... posting<br /><br />http://tinypic.com/r/k3vbt/7<br /><br />I have brought this issue to your attention before, and you continue to flaunt the blog's rules, adding personal insults to your replies.<br /><br />Thankfully, blogger's spam folder is handy as a dumpster for repetitive posts, and that's where your comments invariably end.<br /><br />Readers can read the n-th iteration of your world-famous 2001 Jewish DNA research in the supplied pic which is a snapshot of my spam folder, and you are free to repeat them in any of the venues that welcome you, but not here.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-19164547741039839032011-05-04T04:15:52.270+03:002011-05-04T04:15:52.270+03:00Why do you censor me and my work -like a "Naz...Why do you censor me and my work -like a "Nazi" irreverent- and also shush impeding to publish my articles that authors, scientifics, colleagues and institutions welcomes? <br /><br />Dr. H.H.O.C. -Biochemist-horaciohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08177107320272273468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-74457585646396192912011-05-03T21:07:38.696+03:002011-05-03T21:07:38.696+03:00Dienekes:
You are really wrong, your arguments ar...<i>Dienekes:<br /><br />You are really wrong, your arguments are not valid and lack of science fitness, as well as history context.</i><br /><br />Very well-argued.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-43830350564723916442011-05-03T20:41:47.368+03:002011-05-03T20:41:47.368+03:00Dienekes:
You are really wrong, your arguments ar...Dienekes:<br /><br />You are really wrong, your arguments are not valid and lack of science fitness, as well as history context.horaciohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08177107320272273468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-20707556668876173852011-04-26T19:46:55.953+03:002011-04-26T19:46:55.953+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-38263494598362668382011-04-26T16:20:26.829+03:002011-04-26T16:20:26.829+03:00Very interesting, you basically demolished many of...Very interesting, you basically demolished many of their results/interpretations. <br />African-like admixture in Europe and ME is real IMO, even though I'm increasingly convinced it wholly or largely corresponds to an old North African/Saharan population whose genes are today completely admixed into a Neolithic gene pool with a predominant more Northerly origin (Mesopotamia/Anatolia/Levant).<br />As some people may know, I believe African admixture in the Levant and in Southern Europe is mostly due to en Out-of-Egypt expansion some 7000-4000 years ago, associated with more efficient Neolithic capabilities and Afro-Asiatic languages, as well as common Y haplogroups (E and J?) and the rare L mit haplogroup. A typical uniparental distribution for a Neolithic wave, the opposite of the expected for absorption of slave populations. No wonder it appears in Jews, who may have preserved some cloudy memories of these events better than most (even though references to Egyptian ancestry also appear in Greek Mythology and even among the legends of Gael of Ireland).Diogeneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00827839380414245914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-41340506286913892712011-04-26T15:35:55.722+03:002011-04-26T15:35:55.722+03:00Just to elaborate on the ROLLOF calculations: If t...Just to elaborate on the ROLLOF calculations: If the Arican segments in population are, on average, short, it could be because the admixture occurred a long time ago or it could be because the admixture was small. Once Moorjani et al assumed that that admixture was not small they had to conclude that the admixture was early.Charles Nydorfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16291667302870991631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-41556157583957943362011-04-26T10:27:11.336+03:002011-04-26T10:27:11.336+03:00George, the earlier run only used Yakuts and Chine...George, the earlier run only used Yakuts and Chinese, while this one uses pretty much a representative from every Mongoloid group (from HGDP and Rasmussen) instead of two populations.<br /><br />With respect to "East African", it's a good idea to always look at Fst divergences between components that happen to be named the same. You will see that this "East African" is not the same as the "East African" of the K=10, and in fact it is equidistant (tilted to the West asian side) from Caucasoids and Sub-Saharans. <br /><br />Unfortunately there are only so many names one could use to label components, and, between the alternatives of keeping them un-named or re-using the same names, I chose the latter, as it makes it easier to remember where particular components peak.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-54795203571601934232011-04-26T10:19:17.786+03:002011-04-26T10:19:17.786+03:00The estimate that Jews acquired there African admi...<i>The estimate that Jews acquired there African admixture 72 generations ago while other Levantine populations remained unmixed until 32 generations ago does not look reasonable. It seems to be the result of over-estimating African admixture among Jews.</i><br /><br />I did not go into ROLLOFF in the post, but if you notice, it takes into account the inferred admixture proportions. How that affects the estimate is another matter.<br /><br />I agree with the thrust of your comment. If the "Roman Empire" is to blame, then most of the Levant was in the Roman Empire, while the part that wasn't (Arabia) had even more opportunity, and for much longer, to undergo African admixture. Hence, the idea that Jews received African admixture before Arabs did is difficult to believe.<br /><br />(Mind you, I don't believe there is substantial Sub-Saharan admixture in most of the populations listed in the paper. What they have probably discovered is events linking West Eurasia and Africa such as mtDNA haplogroup M1 or Y-haplogroup E. The expansion of the latter from East Africa has brought a common population element to both West Eurasia and Sub-Saharan Africa)Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-45124754340557109242011-04-26T04:18:12.922+03:002011-04-26T04:18:12.922+03:00Αληθώς Ανέστη!
Great points, Dienekes. It's ...Αληθώς Ανέστη!<br /><br />Great points, Dienekes. It's amazing how a lack of multidimensional spatial awareness leads even academics astray.<br /><br />This brings me to my own (DOD232) case, though. Your K=10 run has me with .002 E.Asian and .006 NE Asian, but 0 N. or E. African. On your recent K=11, wherein you conflate the two Asian components, I then get .0055 E. African (and a lower .0045 combined E. Asian score). Could this be a spurious pull to compensate for my Asian really being more northeasterly?<br /><br />PS While your breakdown of Mediterannean into Basque and Sardinian match Davidski's values to the percentage, your NE and NW scores for me essentially reverse what he obtained for me (.15/.08 vs .07/.16). I wonder if you have any thoughts on that.Auditor George Danoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15451291978096556616noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-54347891019856574112011-04-26T03:26:23.129+03:002011-04-26T03:26:23.129+03:00I have an additional reason for believing that the...I have an additional reason for believing that the amount of African admixture among Jews has been exaggerated. The estimate that Jews acquired there African admixture 72 generations ago while other Levantine populations remained unmixed until 32 generations ago does not look reasonable. It seems to be the result of over-estimating African admixture among Jews. This would make the observed level of linkage disequilibrium, which is not high, seem falsely to be the result of very early admixture.Charles Nydorfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16291667302870991631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-72072383940290378722011-04-26T03:04:28.619+03:002011-04-26T03:04:28.619+03:00Great critique of the Moorjani et al. 2011 paper.Great critique of the Moorjani et al. 2011 paper.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.com