tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post180931689265693304..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Deep structure in Y-chromosome phylogeny (Scozzari et al. 2012)Dienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-1127283609076048702012-11-12T12:49:23.069+02:002012-11-12T12:49:23.069+02:00Uhm, I guess my comment above just received more ...Uhm, I guess my comment above just received more relevance:<br /><br />http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/11/a00-at-ftdna2012-history-in-making.htmleurologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03440019181278830033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-43154411325516917542012-11-11T10:28:41.547+02:002012-11-11T10:28:41.547+02:00I was referring to the ancient DNA samples mainly ...<i>I was referring to the ancient DNA samples mainly from what is now Mongolia, eastern Kazakhstan and Inner Mongolia, which are either from the Xiongnu or from similar nomadic cultures</i><br /><br />all of them from <b>at least</b> about 2000 years before presentOnur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-39664268713190217032012-11-11T06:50:58.637+02:002012-11-11T06:50:58.637+02:00"NW quadrant is surprising. I would have expe..."NW quadrant is surprising. I would have expected NE or East Central or even Southern Africa before NW quadrant at the most basal level."<br /><br />Andrew, <br /><br />That's only surprising if you insist that the most basal lineages are associated with AMHs.eurologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03440019181278830033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-58147471372028916472012-11-11T03:15:23.696+02:002012-11-11T03:15:23.696+02:00" I would speculate that it is a legacy of Hu..." I would speculate that it is a legacy of Hunnic or Avar invasions. Wouldn't that be most likely? Haven't we already shown that the Asian steppe nomadic invaders were Hap C?" <br /><br />East Asian C is virtually all C3 although I understand that C*(xC3) has been found there. C7 is a totally different haplogroup so cannot have been part of the invasions you suggest. A remote possibility is that it came in as C* and coalesced after that in Italy. <br /><br />"It is also interesting to note that the geographical origin of the human Y-chromosome phylogeny (NW Africa) is discordant with that of mtDNA (apparently in the Khoe-San of South Africa). This underscores the futility of trying to determine 'where' modern humans originated in a geographically circumscribed area". <br /><br />As you have been suggesting for some time, a 'single' place of origin is so unlikely to be the case that we may as well rule it out completely. <br /><br />NW quadrant is surprising. I would have expected NE or East Central or even Southern Africa before NW quadrant at the most basal level". <br /><br />For mt-DNA 'NE or East Central or even Southern Africa' is extremely likely. However there is no reason at all why both mt-DNA and Y-DNA should have arisen in the same region as each other, or even at the same time.terrythttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327062321100035888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-23859310836926840532012-11-11T01:32:08.624+02:002012-11-11T01:32:08.624+02:00Still most samples from the area, including Xiongn...<i>Still most samples from the area, including Xiongnu, have at least some Q, often in the majority, and crucially the Pengyang remains (which are OLDER than most "Xiongnu" samples) were exclusively Q.</i><br /><br />I was referring to the ancient DNA samples mainly from what is now Mongolia, eastern Kazakhstan and Inner Mongolia, which are either from the Xiongnu or from similar nomadic cultures (but I also reffered to the ancient DNA samples from Andronovans, who were living much to the west in Central Asia and Siberia). Pengyang, which is in the north-central part of the historical Han/Hui Chinese lands, is too peripheral for nomadic cultures and was home to both sedentary and nomadic cultures historically. Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-53459906054380071322012-11-10T21:45:43.111+02:002012-11-10T21:45:43.111+02:00@Onur
Still most samples from the area, including ...@Onur<br />Still most samples from the area, including Xiongnu, have at least some Q, often in the majority, and crucially the Pengyang remains (which are OLDER than most "Xiongnu" samples) were exclusively Q.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-68310990106059922772012-11-10T13:56:21.159+02:002012-11-10T13:56:21.159+02:00No. Ancient DNA from the Xiongnu and other nomads ...<i>No. Ancient DNA from the Xiongnu and other nomads from the area showed they were almost exclusively "Q". "C" expanding west is probably from much later, at the time of the Mongol expansion.</i><br /><br />That is not true. We do not have enough ancient DNA samples from the Xiongnu and the other nomads from the area whose Y-chromosome haplogroup we know, but despite that we have some ancient DNA samples from the Xiongnu and the other nomads from the area whose Y-chromosome haplogroup we know to be haplogroup C (those whose sub-haplogroup we know belong to the C3 sub-haplogroup). In fact, from the extant evidence it seems the Xiongnu and the other nomads from the area possessed more Y-chromosome haplogroup C than Q. Even Andronovans possessed some Y-chromosome haplogroup C, but none of them have been shown to possess Y-chromosome haplogroup Q. Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-267578277749676212012-11-09T23:13:44.939+02:002012-11-09T23:13:44.939+02:00"Asian steppe nomadic invaders were Hap C&quo..."Asian steppe nomadic invaders were Hap C"<br /><br />No. Ancient DNA from the Xiongnu and other nomads from the area showed they were almost exclusively "Q". "C" expanding west is probably from much later, at the time of the Mongol expansion. <br /><br />Also, I think the branching of C7 makes an eastern Asian origin less likely.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-72585557750700655142012-11-09T18:21:32.574+02:002012-11-09T18:21:32.574+02:00Can you post more on this new branch of C in Italy...Can you post more on this new branch of C in Italy? I would speculate that it is a legacy of Hunnic or Avar invasions. Wouldn't that be most likely? Haven't we already shown that the Asian steppe nomadic invaders were Hap C? Italy was invaded by Huns several times, and Huns also served in late Roman armies.mooreisbetterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17522884275516185288noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-5817933204313360502012-11-09T09:53:28.315+02:002012-11-09T09:53:28.315+02:00In the phylogenetic tree Haplogroup K is unlabelle...In the phylogenetic tree Haplogroup K is unlabelled but descendent haplogroup R, Q, M and so on are labelled. I find that rather odd considering haplogroup K still exists.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-12045926171662354082012-11-09T07:37:29.418+02:002012-11-09T07:37:29.418+02:00Yeah, C desperately needs some high-resolution wor...Yeah, C desperately needs some high-resolution work - so do F*GH and MS.<br /><br />Also, A1b and A1a should really receive their own letter (e.g., "Z" and "y"). eurologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03440019181278830033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-14740469264551902692012-11-08T21:35:11.787+02:002012-11-08T21:35:11.787+02:00NW quadrant is surprising. I would have expected ...NW quadrant is surprising. I would have expected NE or East Central or even Southern Africa before NW quadrant at the most basal level.andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.com