tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post1609321011627421173..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Climate and the demise of the Western Roman EmpireDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-66409213647133694632011-01-30T03:09:31.459+02:002011-01-30T03:09:31.459+02:00The Virginia Company's Jamestown colony, the f...The Virginia Company's Jamestown colony, the first English settlement to (narrowly) survive in N America (preceding the Plymouth Colony by some 14 years) nearly failed due to a climate catastrophe. Tree ring studies now demonstrate that the "starving time" their journals describe was due to the most prolonged and severe drought of the century. Because of this, the Virginian Powhatan Indian population, reluctant to trade their survival reserve of corn, were subjected to corn raids, generating enmity.dderinosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00241585109111424054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-17962764170740614742011-01-22T07:51:09.886+02:002011-01-22T07:51:09.886+02:00The western roman empire fell because it was poor,...The western roman empire fell because it was poor, apart from North Africa and Betica in Spain.<br /><br />They had nothing to offer, and that situation remained unchanged (western europe having nothing of value to export to the rest of the world) until the people of what is now Benelux begun mass producing wool clothes in the middle ages.El Lurkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13542765792516291356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-81342508274291985302011-01-21T20:36:37.234+02:002011-01-21T20:36:37.234+02:00This is how to find justifications after the event...This is how to find justifications after the event. It is possible to link the collapse to a number of statistical factors, if you wanted.<br />I think a year of drought is not enough to bring down an empire and the reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire are many and complex.<br />Until a few decades before it was to the east seems weak and destined to perish.<br />Many have a traditional view of the Empire which is not realistic, it was still prosperous enough to put together substantial forces, as for the shipment of the Emperor Maggioriano , the wrong policy choices have been to cause the fall.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-66064850497728834832011-01-21T17:29:37.314+02:002011-01-21T17:29:37.314+02:00I've never read the book you mentioned, althou...I've never read the book you mentioned, although I've read his earlier volume on the Roman Empire (isbn=978-0801821585). Anyway, I'm pretty sure I don't agree (pending reading it): both empires relied primarily on ocean (Mediterranean/Euxine) transport for troop and supply movement, and IMO the Huns and Persians were no more formidable than the Parthians. (In fact, the Huns got their start as mercenaries for the Romans, fighting other steppe tribes.)<br /><br />I don't recall where I first read it, but one of the big differences between the western empire and the eastern was that in the west the territory extended too far north for olives, thus deprecating the ancient Mediterranean triumvirate of olive, wheat, and vine to a twosome, with no traditional source of oil. (Of course, there was always rape seed (turnips), evidently a traditional Teutonic crop, but the Romans were never very good at adopting alternative economies, their tax structure tended to make them unprofitable.)<br /><br />This would fit with the climate explanation, although it's not as simple as the abstract makes it sound: the period of maximum <b>political</b> instability (AFAIK) centered around 250CE, with the reign of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diocletian" rel="nofollow">Diocletian</a> coinciding with a recovery. Note that Diocletian was the emperor who split the fisc into eastern and western (pretty much coinciding with the later Empires) which put the western territories on their own financially, probably (IMO) leading to the later collapse, as various emperors taxed the inferior economies to death.<br /><br />Unlike the Western Empire, the Eastern Empire didn't have to defend huge territories without a suitable tax base, as almost everywhere the Eastern Empire covered was suitable for olives, wheat, and vine. (AFAIK.)AKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10905636789614137068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-50283575935482437052011-01-21T03:12:07.451+02:002011-01-21T03:12:07.451+02:00"Historical circumstances may challenge recen..."Historical circumstances may challenge recent political and fiscal reluctance to mitigate projected climate change."<br /><br />A stretch.Luke Leahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11290760894780619646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-27480226381986664952011-01-20T21:26:42.763+02:002011-01-20T21:26:42.763+02:00IIRC, there is pretty good evidence linking the de...IIRC, there is pretty good evidence linking the demise of the following groups to climate instability:<br />1. Lowland Maya in Central America<br />2. Anasazi in SW USA<br />3. Vikings in Greenlandpconroyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10312469574812832771noreply@blogger.com