tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post158832600710422917..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Swedish population structure (Salmela et al. 2011)Dienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-34050536390597435702011-02-16T17:36:40.067+02:002011-02-16T17:36:40.067+02:00Language scientists beleive that its possible that...Language scientists beleive that its possible that Germany becomes an englisch speaking country before the year 2100.<br /><br />And that with almost zero migration.<br /><br />They come up with this:<br />childrfen in the age group 14-21 had to explain a thing, using only 100 words.<br /><br />In 1980 they used 2 (from the 100 words) english words.<br /><br />1990 they used 4 english words.<br /><br />2000 they used 10 english words.<br />2004 they used 25 english words (a quarter!)<br /><br />I dont know any more recent numbers.<br /><br />So they came up with the warning, that the existance of the German language is endangered, and the goverment should invoke a counter strategy to save the German language. Otherwise it would be a realistic guess, that there is no German speaker left by 2100.Fantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969348276219179258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-31907066205159562022011-02-15T18:51:42.250+02:002011-02-15T18:51:42.250+02:00"In autosomal studies, Hungary always comes o..."In autosomal studies, Hungary always comes out extremely close to Germany - yet it also belongs to that same large&lose Finno-Ugric language group (that extends from Europe and the Urals into much of Siberia). So, as I mentioned before, language can spread with very little genetic impact (IIRC there is some identifiable, small amount left in Hungarian y-DNA)."<br /><br />Unlike Finnish, the Hungarian language arrived and spread at a relatively recent time and in a densely populated area. For Hungarian, a much better analogy would be the arrival and spread of the Turkish language in a densely populated area, in what is now Turkey and its environs, at about the same time with that of Hungarian in what is now Hungary and its environs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-29471095343445777552011-02-15T10:31:13.889+02:002011-02-15T10:31:13.889+02:00I wonder how this can be explained taking into acc...<i>I wonder how this can be explained taking into account language differences in Finland and those Germanic countries.</i><br /><br />In autosomal studies, Hungary always comes out <i>extremely</i> close to Germany - yet it also belongs to that same large&lose Finno-Ugric language group (that extends from Europe and the Urals into much of Siberia). So, as I mentioned before, language can spread with very little genetic impact (IIRC there is some identifiable, small amount left in Hungarian y-DNA).eurologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03440019181278830033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-34454675741361303962011-02-14T22:45:44.455+02:002011-02-14T22:45:44.455+02:00After seeing that Eastern Finns are so distant for...After seeing that Eastern Finns are so distant for the Vologda Russians it is more obvious what I have suggested; all Northern people, Norwegians, Swedes, Finns and Nothern Russians have got their Asian affinity separately by mixing with different semiarctic hunters after their northward expansions. Norwegians, Finns, Swedes and Russians all moved from the south. There is no other serious explanation. <br /><br />The gap between eastern Finns and Russians also gives us genetic proofs of two waves of the populating of Finland. The first wave came from south and second from east before the last phase of Slavic expansion. Though this is a historic fact, it is good to see that also genetics support it. If things have gone by some other way, we shouldn't have this gap. <br /><br />Surprisingly the Northern Russians seems to be at the same distant from Western Finns, Swedes and Germans. Obviously Slavs would hit much closer them, but but anyway it is interesting to see this in a historic perspect. I wonder how this can be explained taking into account language differences in Finland and those Germanic countries.Maurihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03670078523265515878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-44110754486271741912011-02-14T07:44:35.040+02:002011-02-14T07:44:35.040+02:00Davidski,
Whether you believe in dates resulting ...Davidski,<br /><br />Whether you believe in dates resulting from the Zhivitovsky rate or not, R1a1a is clearly very old, and based on diversity its origin is South Asia. It is ludicrous to call R1a1a1 "Slavic", when it also clearly predates any notion of "Slavic" linguistically or culturally.<br /><br />Yet, we may be saying almost the same thing: R1a1a1 is widely distributed in Europe and very old, but the specific branches that can be associated with Slavic expansion and <i>some</i> (actually, a minority of) present-day Slavic speakers show a pattern that concentrates around the Ukraine and southern Poland - while the R1a1a branches in the Balkans, Germany, Scandinavia, the Baltics (and even western Poland) are <i>different</i> (save for recent immigrants, of course). Also note that even Gwozdz's P type only makes up ~8% of the Polish population! That is, there is a much older, clearly pre-Slavic substrate in Poland, as well.<br /><br />In other words, the Slavic expansion is mostly linguistic and cultural, but petered out genetically (even in y-DNA) very quickly away from its origin in areas that were already (or at that point) heavily populated (thus accounting for the special cases of parts of Russia and the Czech republic).<br /><br />This is similar to the Baltic population, which genetically clearly <i>locally</i> predates the arrival of the Baltic languages.eurologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03440019181278830033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-56752774669196554772011-02-12T14:37:26.665+02:002011-02-12T14:37:26.665+02:00eurologist, what are you babbling about?
Slavic R...eurologist, what are you babbling about?<br /><br />Slavic R1a1a1 is found all over Poland, from top to bottom and east to west, and deep into Germany.<br /><br />It comes in several forms, including...<br /><br />- M458 aka. R1a1a1g aka. Peter Gwozdz's N type (the old R1a1a7), most likely associated with proto-Slavs of Central-Eastern Europe.<br /><br />- L260 aka. R1a1a1g2 aka. Peter Gwozdz's P type (the old R1a1a7b), the "Polish" haplogroup.<br /><br />- L365 aka. R1a1a1i aka. Peter Gwozdz's G type, potentially associated with one or more of the ancient Southern Baltic shore cultures, like the Wielbark.<br /><br />All three branches most likely originated in, or at least very close to modern Poland.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-36312642345220984652011-02-11T09:54:27.948+02:002011-02-11T09:54:27.948+02:00I have always maintained that there are signs for ...I have always maintained that there are signs for three ancestral populations in Sweden (plus a Finnish contribution). This paper, especially the local PC1+2 and wider, 3-D PC1+2+3 plots nicely demonstrate this. Southern Swedes are essentially almost identical with the most northern Germans (i.e., from the earliest northern agriculturalists, plus frequent mixing through the millennia). But then, in addition to the northernmost Sami contribution, there is always an additional, north-central Swedish cluster that shows up, which I would identify with an original, non-agriculturalists, non-Sami population. <br /><br />This study also shows (via the relatively large genetic variation) that the data cannot simply be explained by drift and isolation.<br /><br />The large Fst distance to Russians (larger than between Russians and Germans) also has a couple of interesting interpretations. Firstly, it confirms that the R1a in much of central Europe and Scandinavia is very old (at least going back to the beginning of agriculture, if not earlier) - as confirmed with ancient y-DNA studies. That is, R1a from the much more recent Slavic expansion encompasses distinct subclades (which did not penetrate into parts of Poland, the Baltic, and Serbia/Croatia). Secondly, the people that used the Eastern rivers to trade with the very south may not have been Scandinavians but Germans - or else, they did not have a significant genetic impact there, as once was thought.eurologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03440019181278830033noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-20720843401573995772011-02-11T00:35:05.580+02:002011-02-11T00:35:05.580+02:00The Swedes - especially southern Swedes - were gen...<i>The Swedes - especially southern Swedes - were genetically close to the Germans and British, while their genetic distance to Finns was substantially longer.</i><br /><br />That is very interesting! Swedes are much closer genetically to Germans (and to British!) than to Finns.<br /><br />Does it reflect ancient Germanic origins or simply the extreme distinctiveness (and variation) of Finns?<br /><br />Im guessing that Swedes would have a closer phenotype to Finns than to British?<br /><br />Remarkably the mtDNA levels are almost identical between England and Germany for each of the 14 haplogroups listed here:<br /><br />http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_mtdna_haplogroups_frequency.shtmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-276933145356946632011-02-10T22:19:58.418+02:002011-02-10T22:19:58.418+02:00Not surprising, considering the northernmost part ...Not surprising, considering the northernmost part of Sweden used to be Finnish-speaking. Many place names there are Finnish or corruptions from Finnish. There are still Finnish speaking people in the Torne River valley.Jyrilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09036366298522961315noreply@blogger.com