tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post1467004721977041908..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Admixture analysis in Central EuropeansDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-85667373398136004102009-03-24T04:19:00.000+02:002009-03-24T04:19:00.000+02:00Well anyway, I think it's pretty interesting to ge...Well anyway, I think it's pretty interesting to get only 5 outliers from 4,448 samples, especially as these are cancer patients and controls, and not people specifically chosen to represent their respective ethnic groups.<BR/><BR/>The second plot I posted above uses the same samples, minus the cancer patients, but many more markers. It's quite nice in the way it shows the individual European countries. But the only inter-continental outlier there is one guy from Japan.<BR/><BR/>It'd be really fascinating to get figures of admix rates for each of the several thousand people on that PCA, plus averages for each country. It looks like some of those British and Germans would have as much Asian influence as that subset of Russians, who are most likely of Finnic or Tatar origin. I'm just guessing, but that's probably the result of a colonial history in the east.Polakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08791738703122670119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-8024153303396265362009-03-23T21:50:00.000+02:002009-03-23T21:50:00.000+02:00Pconroy, I'm part Polish myself, and my oldest dau...Pconroy, I'm part Polish myself, and my oldest daughter had a very obvious-- and unexpected-- blue spot when she was a baby.Kosmohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05156165962330239126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-73798827055477193732009-03-23T19:57:00.000+02:002009-03-23T19:57:00.000+02:00I think Russia is hardly in Central Europe...I think Russia is hardly in Central Europe...Userhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10550208826591105924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-42330242017359533622009-03-23T19:32:00.000+02:002009-03-23T19:32:00.000+02:00Polak,I'd expect the Czech to have more East Asian...Polak,<BR/><BR/>I'd expect the Czech to have more East Asian DNA, as they probably have more Hungarian blood, and that would be the probable source IMO.<BR/><BR/>As regards Norway and Sweden, I too would expect them to have more East Asian DNA, due to the putative migration of Huns, Alans and Sarmatians to that region over a millennium ago.<BR/>Here is a very well researched article, by David Faux, on the <A HREF="http://www.davidkfaux.org/CentralAsiaRootsofScandinavia-Y-DNAEvidence.pdf" REL="nofollow">Central Asian Roots of Scandinavia</A>, where he links all the evidence togather, and verifies it vis Y-DNA analysis.pconroyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10312469574812832771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-42288289149485097892009-03-23T18:16:00.000+02:002009-03-23T18:16:00.000+02:00I superimposed this admix plot over the PCA from H...I superimposed this admix plot over the PCA from Heath et al 2008.<BR/><BR/>(a and (b are the same, (b is just a much bigger version.<BR/><BR/>http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/p217/dpwes/h1-1.jpgPolakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08791738703122670119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-60324708238582498832009-03-23T18:14:00.000+02:002009-03-23T18:14:00.000+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-1177170403777976332009-03-23T18:10:00.000+02:002009-03-23T18:10:00.000+02:00Are you sure about South Asia?The one known asian ...Are you sure about South Asia?<BR/><BR/>The one known asian title in Central Europe in medieval time was "hakan" (or "khagan") for the chief of <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Avars" REL="nofollow">avars</A>' state (Avarian Khaganate). In that context <B>pconroy</B> might be right about asian trace in polish armor.<BR/><BR/>P.S. Don't mind "Moscow samples". :) Some people from Poland tend to consider russians being uralic-mongoloid mixture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-63638851995667716102009-03-23T17:56:00.000+02:002009-03-23T17:56:00.000+02:00pconroy,Based on these Polish samples, Asian admix...pconroy,<BR/><BR/>Based on these Polish samples, Asian admixture in Poland is lower than in Germany, Norway, Sweden and Czech Republic, to name a few.<BR/><BR/>You can read about that here...<BR/><BR/>http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/2008/11/polish-european-and-world-samples.htmlPolakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08791738703122670119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-82610284935342287612009-03-23T17:02:00.000+02:002009-03-23T17:02:00.000+02:00I should also mention that my first wife was Polis...I should also mention that my first wife was Polish, with parents from Poznan and Lvov, and told me that as a young child she ahd the <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_spot" REL="nofollow">Mongolian Blue Spot</A> - even though she was a blue eyed blonde?!pconroyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10312469574812832771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-73831697964721528562009-03-23T16:53:00.000+02:002009-03-23T16:53:00.000+02:00Perhaps the East Asian DNA comes from minority gro...Perhaps the East Asian DNA comes from minority groups like the <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uhlan" REL="nofollow">Uhlans aka Polish Tartars</A>?<BR/><BR/>Here is an image of some <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Grupa_żołnierzy_Pułku_Jazdy_Tatarskiej_1919_rok.JPG" REL="nofollow">Polish Tartar soldiers</A>pconroyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10312469574812832771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-24469292736198583592009-03-23T16:52:00.000+02:002009-03-23T16:52:00.000+02:00I've never heard Moscow to be considered part of "...I've never heard Moscow to be considered part of "Central Europe"! I wonder how the map looks if the Moscow samples are removed.hjernespiserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09257394362881674746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-49610509512259228932009-03-23T14:04:00.000+02:002009-03-23T14:04:00.000+02:00I take it that "Africa" means sub-Saharan Africa?I take it that "Africa" means sub-Saharan Africa?deariemehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06654632450454559188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-90601525037675582792009-03-23T09:04:00.000+02:002009-03-23T09:04:00.000+02:00AFAIK 4 of the 5 outliers come from Moscow, and ma...AFAIK 4 of the 5 outliers come from Moscow, and may be people of fairly recent mixed Eurasian background. I don't know where the 5th one is from.<BR/><BR/>2016 of these samples were also used in Heath et al. 2008, and compared to other Europeans. See second diagram here...<BR/><BR/>http://polishgenes.blogspot.com/2009/03/admixture-analysis-of-4448-central.htmlPolakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08791738703122670119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-2735465783676241532009-03-23T07:41:00.000+02:002009-03-23T07:41:00.000+02:00onur said,"They may also be Altaic or Uralic remna...onur said,<BR/><BR/>"They may also be Altaic or Uralic remnants."<BR/><BR/>Uralic? I strongly doubt it. Most "Uralic" people cluster even more closely with Europeans than South Asians do. The only sort of "Uralic remnants" that might produce such a large degree of deviation toward the East Asian cluster should be the Siberian sort, i.e. Nenets, Enets, Nganasan, Selkup, Khanty, and Mansi, whose total population according to the 2002 census is an underwhelming 86,820 persons.Ebizurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16925110639823856429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-14178704897113423152009-03-23T05:16:00.000+02:002009-03-23T05:16:00.000+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ebizurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16925110639823856429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-72094185762196190772009-03-23T03:09:00.000+02:002009-03-23T03:09:00.000+02:00They may also be Altaic or Uralic remnants.They may also be Altaic or Uralic remnants.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-42740834035849739322009-03-23T02:57:00.000+02:002009-03-23T02:57:00.000+02:00South Asia = Indian SubcontinentSouth Asia = Indian SubcontinentOnur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-5746509202308627122009-03-23T01:22:00.000+02:002009-03-23T01:22:00.000+02:00Forgive my ignorance, but what defines South Asia?...Forgive my ignorance, but what defines South Asia? Is this India and the Middle East? or more Cambodia, Thailand, and Vietnam?BlaiseVillaumehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12061137181902501714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-18418267019773142292009-03-23T00:06:00.000+02:002009-03-23T00:06:00.000+02:00At K=3 South Asians cluster overwhelmingly with Eu...At <A HREF="http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2009/03/geographical-affinities-of-hapmap.html" REL="nofollow">K=3</A> South Asians cluster overwhelmingly with Europeans and not with East Asians. Roma are part South Asian part West Eurasian, so they will be even more similar to Europeans compared to East Asians. So, I doubt that the outliers are Roma.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-70596772889867903612009-03-22T23:30:00.000+02:002009-03-22T23:30:00.000+02:00Those outliers would be Roma, no?Maybe some of the...<I>Those outliers would be Roma, no?</I><BR/><BR/>Maybe some of them. But I don't think all.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-9635113164344831662009-03-22T23:19:00.000+02:002009-03-22T23:19:00.000+02:00Those outliers would be Roma, no?Those outliers would be Roma, no?Thorfinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00821884421437850613noreply@blogger.com