tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post1087396548670861069..comments2024-01-04T04:11:55.717+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: The Taíno are extinctDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger98125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-17551795252117734372013-11-18T21:42:02.584+02:002013-11-18T21:42:02.584+02:00I am Puerto Rican and I agree that biologically th...I am Puerto Rican and I agree that biologically the Taino are extinct however you have to understand that when a Puerto Rican tries to trace their heritage it is almost impossible with out some kind of DNA test. Most of us are faced with being part Spanish, part Taino, and part African and it's messed up to realize your ancestors were slaves to and killed by your own ancestors. The fact is that since they live on the island of the Taino they usually dig into that culture and they of course are trying to revive it. Taino is just a culture and heritage to me, just like the Spanish in me and the African in me it's not a race or ethnic group because I don't really give a damn about race. It's not about who is alive or what words are used or what remnants of the culture still exist if any it's about heritage. I really don't understand why you don't understand that people would be sensitive about this issue, it was a complete genocide that actually succeeded after all. I don't know I see a lot of crap in the comments (not from the author) for people taking part in the culture of their own heritage and use arguments like we're disrespecting our distant ancestors because we can't recreate what they had is like saying we shouldn't celebrate Halloween because we can't recreate Samhain exactly how the Gauls did, it's like getting pissed at people over renaissance fairs or getting worked up over the Irish for celebrating their Celtic heritage or even more accurately getting bent out of shape for an American being proud of being 1/3 Irish.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01087775860554408014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-27165647242087689652012-07-20T15:44:33.718+03:002012-07-20T15:44:33.718+03:00Hello again,
Curently we at the Smithsonian Nation...Hello again,<br />Curently we at the Smithsonian National Museum of the American Indian are working on an exhibit which will debut in 2015 based on Taino cultural survival. Most exhibits if not all alway focus on the archelogival findings. This has created a belief that Taino culture is or was solely based on the usage of the Cemi (Taino religious items). However no one has ever attempted or explore in depthsuch things as Taino fishing methods, basket making, planting ways, religious practices, pottery techniques, canoe making etc<br />It is in these camps that one finds an outstanding amount of Taino cultural retention that survive to this day. In fact in a recent workshop , Beyond Extinction, we were surprised to learn of how these practices are found uniformaly throught the major islands of the Caribbean. So it is ot only DNA that has survived. One more note, in a recent DNA study my Tajima/Hamaguchi from Japan,<br /> They found that 51% of their Dominican test subjects had Native American mtDNA. Added togther with the cultural practices that abound today of Taino extraction it is cler to see that Taino extinction was a myth created inadvertantly by Spanish chroniclers who no doubt hiding Indians (no indians no taxes) or relabling them <br /> (if they are black they do ot have to be freed- see Lynne Guitar) etc<br />Thanks again- great thread<br />Jorge Baracutei EstevezBaracuteihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12602701445304267627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-85517591546166321192012-07-15T20:46:43.908+03:002012-07-15T20:46:43.908+03:00Most people on this thread are overlooking that 15...Most people on this thread are overlooking that 15% Taino is the National Average, if there is a group of people with Taino admixture above the average, lets say 70, 80 or 90% Taino then they are by conventional estimates, biologically Tainos, then if there is a group of high Taino admixture they are not extinct. Who says that a population must be 100% pure to be considered Taino or for that matter any other group? For example im 25% italian and 75% Spanish, that doesn't stop people in Spain from calling me "italiano". So in conclusion if there people with high admixture (let's say 70% plus) of Taino, even if they are few, from a biological perspective, they are not extinct. Culturally, well that' s another matter.Deluchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17008693106620070395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-6168613363704212042012-04-13T00:35:58.164+03:002012-04-13T00:35:58.164+03:00"If I accepted that, I would also have to acc..."If I accepted that, I would also have to accept that there are Etruscans, Tasmanians, Neandertals, and even dinosaurs in the world today. That possibility is too ridiculous for me to ponder, so I choose not to."<br /><br />Actually, the cladistic sense of "dinosaur" is becoming increasingly popular, especially among researchers. <i>Dinosauria</i> is now commonly defined as the last common ancestor of <i>Megalosaurus</i> and <i>Iguanodon</i> and all descendants thereof. This happens to include thousands of living species (birds).<br /><br />Even in the traditional, paraphyletic sense, "dinosaurs" are not a population, so not a great example.Mike Keeseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00147156174467903264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-29617603957552559942012-01-02T05:13:16.021+02:002012-01-02T05:13:16.021+02:00Hello everyone,
I want to thank you all for such ...Hello everyone, <br />I want to thank you all for such a lively and interesting debate. As a person from the Dominican Republic and one that identifies as Taino I would like to offer my opinion if I may. Missing from this discussion are the recent multi-disciplinary studies that have demonstrated the multitude of Taino cultural customs that have survived to the present. These customs were over- looked or ignored since it was accepted that the Taino had all “disappeared”. In some cases they were Africanized without a shred of evidence as to their origins. Today we know better. I fFor example was raised making casabe bread made from the poison yuca which was also the staple of the classic Taino. This bread along with Guayiga bread (samia) is still made by villagers in the Dominican Republic, Cuba and Puerto Rico. Researchers such as Kathleen Deagen, Pedro Ferbel Azcarte, Lynne Guitar, etc have documented this cultural continuity that points to survival and continuity .Linguists have demonstrated that of the 3200 Taino words for place names, flora and fauna that are in existence today, as much as two hundred everyday words in use were never recorded by the Spanish. Can people with Neanderthal DNA say the same?<br /> Villagers on the islands always knew this. The current Taino revival is focused on this and not DNA. I have always maintained that my identity did not begin in a test tube. When DNA came into the picture it merely confirmed what many campesinos (peasants) had been saying for a very long time. Take my grandmother Olympia for example. She always maintainedthat her grandparents were Indians. She died at 104 years of age Her grandmother was said to have lived to be 110 years old. So this Taino identity thing is not new. However they never called themselves Taino as this was a term coined in the 1920’s by Sven Loven from the Taino language to describe the culture of the Native people of the Caribbean. <br />Imagine my surprise when I participated in 3 autosomal DNA tests (I was curious yet doubtful that these test could actually be done at the time) and my Indian scores were 29% in test 1, 31 % in test 2 and 40 % in test 3. But the one who got the biggest surprise was my mother who commented “ You paid money so someone else could tell you what I have been telling you all your life?” DNA sequencing by individual and regionally shows higher percentages than national averages, so much of what was discussed here in my opinion is flawed.<br />There is a lot more on culture language and religiosity that I could post on here if you like. The rabbit hole is deeper and longer than you know. But I do realize that the main problem here is purity. It only takes one drop of black blood to be considered black but a whole lot more to be accepted as Indian.<br />Thank you<br />Jorge Baracutei EstevezJorge Baracutei Estevezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09662646903833997974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-82669116684568970772011-12-30T20:53:11.518+02:002011-12-30T20:53:11.518+02:00Hello everyone, I would like to post my humble opi...Hello everyone, I would like to post my humble opinion but am having trouble doing so. Is there someone I must send my comment to?<br />Thank you<br />Jorge Baracutei Estevez<br />Baracutay12@aol.comJorge Baracutei Estevezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09662646903833997974noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-75649278996311638402011-11-11T23:38:25.347+02:002011-11-11T23:38:25.347+02:00Yes, I have had this debate on several leftist web...<i>Yes, I have had this debate on several leftist websites, where the leftist commentators could not comprehend that unity and diversity where logical opposites.</i><br /><br />Perhaps it is only because "leftist commentators" have a more finely honed sense of vocabulary than you are used to.<br /><br />"Unity" and "diversity" are not at all logical opposites, unless you think that unity can only exist in the presence of complete and total homogeneity. I think most political scientists would suggest something rather different, which is that a certain amount of diversity is required to have any appreciable degree of political unity.<br /><br />And speaking as if there is only one spectrum of unity and one spectrum of diversity is, obviously, going to lead to a bizarrely abstract discussion. A nation can accommodate a nearly infinite amount of cultural and ethnic diversity just as long as there is a counterbalancing strength of political unity.<br /><br />Besides, this strikes me as a peculiar time in world history to uphold "Greeks" as a model of accepting responsibilities: whatever you think about the Taino, they aren't bringing any national economies to the brink of collapse.Vincenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00008012554198066886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-85425257710208389172011-11-05T19:51:04.019+02:002011-11-05T19:51:04.019+02:00I think it's pretty obvious that the term &quo...I think it's pretty obvious that the term "racist" is now part of Godwin's Law. Accusations of "racism" are tantamount to comparing someone to Hitler and the person leveling the accusation has automatically lost the argument.<br /><br />An interesting study, that has recently been making the rounds of the internet, seems to indicate that black Americans who strongly identify themselves as black are happier than those who do not identify as such. Obviously, humans have a hardwired instinct to "belong". Belonging, though, has a flip-side: exclusion.<br /><br />Vincent, this is a political issue, as the various politically-correct, oppression-mongering, postmodernist cultural Marxists want to have their cake and eat it, too. They want unity, social solidarity, but they assert that it can exist simultaneously with diversity. Yes, I have had this debate on several leftist websites, where the leftist commentators could not comprehend that unity and diversity where logical opposites.<br /><br />The problem with "minority rights" is that the self-identifying minority wants to enjoy the rights of being in the modern nation-state, but they want to be excluded from the obligations of citizenship, the debt of unity.<br /><br />This, by the way, has been my experience in conversing with Afrocentric American types on the internet. Here's a challenge: answer the question "what do black Americans owe white Americans?".<br /><br />Now go to a black-oriented website and tell them your answer to that question. They will call you a "racist". So, what they are saying is that "black folk don't owe white people nutttin'". That is what the "minority rights" crowd is asserting, they want the privileges of living in modern civilization with none of the burdens.<br /><br />When Dienekes calls himself "greek" he is simultaneously acknowledging his privileges deriving from that label as well as his duties to upholding the civilizational legacy that provides those privileges. "Minority rights" activists, like the Taino-identity movement, want identity privileges without any concurrent duties.<br /><br />That is the real distinction between the two identities: rights and responsibilities. "Greek" accepts rights and responsibilities in equal measure, while "Taino" is an ex nihilo assertion of rights.Joelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08527249221511174126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-73748745728315528912011-11-01T12:40:58.057+02:002011-11-01T12:40:58.057+02:00Annie Mouse, I think that you missed Onur's fu...Annie Mouse, I think that you missed Onur's funniest assertion.<br /><br /><i>If you regard what the pseudo-Taino do as the resurrection of the Taino culture, you are showing disrespect to the real Taino.</i><br /><br />Firstly it's amusing to assert outrage on behalf of the assumed feelings of people who are all dead. And secondly if you really consider how any of us might feel to be remembered by our descendants and to know that they wish to uphold our values (even if they're a bit shaky on almost all of the details), you would be more likely to imagine that this would make them happy.Amanda Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05997180528147657311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-71198291996142299132011-11-01T12:21:00.226+02:002011-11-01T12:21:00.226+02:00So African ancestry is race-based and but Amerindi...<i>So African ancestry is race-based and but Amerindian ancestry isnt? Are you even reading what you are writing?</i><br /><br />My response was about how valid or invalid the "Taino" identity of pseudo-Taino are, not about how much Taino/Amerindian descended they are, please do not distort my statements. There is already a racial category for racially Caucasoid-Amerindian hybrids: mestizo. They can also be included in the lingio-geographical category of Hispanic.<br /><br /><i>How dare I what? LOL. The most ineffectual attempt at intimidation I have ever seen. Thanks for making my day.</i><br /><br />It is not intimidation but a perfectly valid criticism of your argument.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-21898301844034880862011-11-01T08:45:18.319+02:002011-11-01T08:45:18.319+02:00"So do Neanderthals."
Yes indeed.
&quo..."So do Neanderthals."<br /><br />Yes indeed.<br /><br />"Unlike Taino, African American is a race-based category"<br /><br />So African ancestry is race-based and but Amerindian ancestry isnt? Are you even reading what you are writing?<br /><br />"How dare you claim that? "<br /><br />How dare I what? LOL. The most ineffectual attempt at intimidation I have ever seen. Thanks for making my day.<br /><br />I will dare to speak my mind. Wrap your chains around yourself, not me.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11000684388615334278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-58447536219394495252011-11-01T02:57:48.264+02:002011-11-01T02:57:48.264+02:00Formerjerseyboy, the "Taino" movement is...Formerjerseyboy, the "Taino" movement is working like a religion. They are trying to "convert" Puerto Ricans to the "Taino" identity by telling them that they are actually Taino but were in the past centuries deceived by the "White Devil" to believe that they are not Taino. So much for the claims of continuity of identity!Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-89908698896041803562011-10-31T21:07:19.293+02:002011-10-31T21:07:19.293+02:00I spoke last night with two of my Aunts in Puerto ...I spoke last night with two of my Aunts in Puerto Rico (both retired school Principals, with master's degrees) about the Taino movement. They found the very idea to be hilarious, and have not heard of anything like this based in Puerto Rico. The "Taino" movement sounds to me like it is rooted outside of the real worl, as some elite navel-gazing U.S. universities.formerjerseyboyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12359486237718341127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-84911858648747047002011-10-31T18:41:56.057+02:002011-10-31T18:41:56.057+02:00German Dzeibel,
I'm not sure whether to take ...German Dzeibel,<br /><br />I'm not sure whether to take comfort in the fact that you could not actually find anything I wrote to be objectionable, or frustrated that you follow Deinekes and Onur in dodging the hard questions.<br /><br />Perhaps you'd recommend that I should follow the dodgy "both and neithet" approach you take on ethnic boundaries?<br /><br />None of us know each other's true identities, but I reject the notion that it matters. You can read what I wrote and either agree or object without seeing my resume. I evaluate what Dienekes writes based on the quality of his data and reasoning, not on what I might imagine about his personal life. Surely I'm not alone in seeing that as the superior approach.Vincenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00008012554198066886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-76130358036937831222011-10-31T17:05:20.101+02:002011-10-31T17:05:20.101+02:00@Vincent
"If there is something I've wri...@Vincent<br /><br />"If there is something I've written that strikes you (in your "professional" opinion) as "confused" I welcome your feedback: I'd be happy to reconsider or clarify it for you and others."<br /><br />You don't invite feedback on thoughts that are completely uninformed. Even if those thoughts are yours. You are not a celebrity academic with a track record of publications, so I don't have the faintest clue what you're trying to say and, more importantly, why it matters to you. You haven't referenced any relevant research/case studies on cultural politics, identity, ethnicity, objectivity, etc. Without them it's a waste of everybody's time. Dienekes's post was not intended as a deep dive into Taino identity and there's no link to any publication that does it.<br /><br />Here's what you could do to get my feedback: read at least "Taino revival," edited by Haslip-Viera, then write a blog post on one of your many websites.<br /><br />"Or would you agree with me that such boundaries are inherently subjective and, therefore, not amenable to definitive pronouncements as in the title of this blog entry?"<br /><br />If you'd read what I wrote above, ethnic identities are relational signs and hence are neither fully objective nor fully subjective.German Dziebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10703679732205862495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-78323425292726097032011-10-31T14:56:31.083+02:002011-10-31T14:56:31.083+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.lkdjfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03514846090932680966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-53706788844472630112011-10-31T14:01:28.467+02:002011-10-31T14:01:28.467+02:00German Dziebel,
If there is something I've wr...German Dziebel,<br /><br />If there is something I've written that strikes you (in your "professional" opinion) as "confused" I welcome your feedback: I'd be happy to reconsider or clarify it for you and others.<br /><br />And perhaps you can offer the answer that so far eluded Dienekes: what, if any, objective criteria define the boundaries between ethnic groups? Or would you agree with me that such boundaries are inherently subjective and, therefore, not amenable to definitive pronouncements as in the title of this blog entry?Vincenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00008012554198066886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-23589693489729327202011-10-31T11:36:39.574+02:002011-10-31T11:36:39.574+02:00I think the Taino live on in their descendants.
S...<i>I think the Taino live on in their descendants.</i><br /><br />So do Neanderthals.<br /><br /><i>Of whom there are many (known and unknown), however there is no known test of Taino, as opposed to say, Carib, yet, so folk should be cautious.</i><br /><br />These is nothing that differentiates Taino-wannabe Puerto Ricans from non-Taino-wannabe Puerto Ricans: not in language (they all speak Spanish), not in religion (they are all traditionally Catholic Christians), not in genetics (virtually they all have some Taino blood, but in the 10%-15% range on average) and not in culture. So the "Taino" identity of the Taino-wannabes is completely artificial on all grounds in addition to being fabricated during the last few decades.<br /><br /><i>A wolf is still a wolf whether it lives out the fifth generation in captivity in a zoo or remains in the wild. So culture is irrelevant. An ethnically African baby raised outside its culture is still African ethnically. Who is to argue at what point that African childs admixtured progeny ceases to be mostly African and become.... what? As we have seen %African does not exactly correlate with perceived ethnicity or colour. By the USA 1 drop rule almost everyone of colonial USA ancestry is likely to be considered African. Which is likely to be a huge shock to some members of the KKK.</i><br /><br />Unlike Taino, African American is a race-based category, not an ethnic identity. So you are comparing apples and oranges.<br /><br /><i>The Taino are Taino because they beleive they have Taino blood (a reasonable argument) and are choosing to resurrect their culture.</i><br /><br />How dare you claim that? Is the Taino culture in its original form or in a recognizable form so easy to resurrect? We are talking about a population/ethnic group that disappeared as a group centuries ago. If you regard what the pseudo-Taino do as the resurrection of the Taino culture, you are showing disrespect to the real Taino.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-50246593246234561772011-10-31T05:51:39.983+02:002011-10-31T05:51:39.983+02:00Looking at Dienekes's avatar, one can understa...Looking at Dienekes's avatar, one can understand his desire to be identified with Ancient Greeks who crated a glorious civilization. But why on Earth anybody would like to be called a Taino? They were a weak people that disappeared as soon they were visited by the Spanish.Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05676167615981895061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-76654836187641757192011-10-31T01:34:11.020+02:002011-10-31T01:34:11.020+02:00I've avoided commenting on the Taino issue as ...I've avoided commenting on the Taino issue as I don't think that I know enough about it. However, if it's true that the Taino Identity movement is restricted to some emigre Puerto Ricans living in the United States then I would suggest that it's destined to the fate of the "here today gone the next generation" American subcultures featured in the documentaries of Louis Theroux. If on the other hand it's a movement with a voice in Puerto Rico then presumably it will feed a debate about history and identity amongst the people there who have the biggest stake in it.<br /><br />On the subject of "extinct" identites, when I first came to live in Australia from the UK over twenty years ago, I was surprised to find people talking about "Anglo Saxons" to refer to Australians whose ancestry lay in the British Isles. This summoned up mental images for me of people with helmets, chain mail and spears straight from the Bayeux Tapestry. As far as I was concerned "Anglo Saxons" were extinct but this turned out not to be the case in Australia! Since living here the term "Anglo Celtic" seems to have generally replaced "Anglo Saxon" to refer to the same group of people.<br /><br />mooreisbetter, I really can't leave the following comment unchallenged.<br /><br /><i>Vincent, would your answer change much if that same kid discovered that one of his 256 recent ancestors HAD been a black slave (which is fairly common for <b>lower-class</b>, been in the US a long time Americans)? </i><br /><br />I'm not one to throw around the term "racist" but I would really like to know on what basis you make the assumption that the 30% of white Americans who have been found to have some African American ancestry are "lower class". If I was to make some guesses about which white Americans were likely to have such ancestry, I would guess that the proportion would be higher in the southern states and in the western states, such as California, where much of the white population came from southern states (people tended to emigrate west more or less along lines of latitude). I would also assume that the more ancestry that went back to colonial America a person has, the more likely it is that they have some African ancestry. I wouldn't assume anything about their social position in contemporary America. I would like to know why you have.Amanda Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05997180528147657311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-77943522274134394542011-10-31T01:04:57.232+02:002011-10-31T01:04:57.232+02:00Dienekes, Vincent,
Could I ask you for a favor: p...Dienekes, Vincent,<br /><br />Could I ask you for a favor: please do not clutter the string with incompetent, pointless, non-stop, one-on-one debates about an altogether minor point. I'm a professional and I'm not interested in what either of you has to say on the subject of "Taino" identity and the innocent bystanders won't learn anything from your confused language and thinking.<br /><br />Dienekes, could you go back to actually fishing for the interesting papers that actually try to advance science?<br /><br />Thank you.German Dziebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10703679732205862495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-71369202549944837022011-10-31T00:33:41.180+02:002011-10-31T00:33:41.180+02:00I suppose that if you only respond to things I don...I suppose that if you only respond to things I don't say and never to things I do say, there is no hope for a substantive discussion.Vincenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00008012554198066886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-42713438164938081702011-10-30T23:11:10.550+02:002011-10-30T23:11:10.550+02:00Dieneke, as soon as I realized this Vincent guy...Dieneke, as soon as I realized this Vincent guy's motives I stopped responding to him. He is a waste of time and does not deserve responses, not even name-calling.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-85058409124551174882011-10-30T22:48:51.007+02:002011-10-30T22:48:51.007+02:00Here, too, we disagree. I think it is not toleranc...<i>Here, too, we disagree. I think it is not tolerance of people's rights to self-identity that is the problem, but rather the conference of special rights based on ethnic identity or race that is the problem.</i><br /><br />Once more you are inconsistent. Because on one hand you claim that you do not wish to confer special rights based on ethnic identity, and on the other, you are perfectly willing to side with the modern "Taino" and their campaign to declare their group as not extinct, even making the claim that anyone who says they are is "racist".Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-41517908655968501242011-10-30T22:31:42.281+02:002011-10-30T22:31:42.281+02:00I don't doubt that it would be easy enough for...<i>I don't doubt that it would be easy enough for you to cherry pick references supporting your point of view: racism is indeed an ancient and pervasive phenomenon, so there will be no shortage I'm sure.</i><br /><br />A good sign of a losing argument is to resort to name-calling. There is absolutely no reason to think that all the references I provided were "racist" towards the Taino. This may come as a surprise to you, but a lot of scientists share my view and think that the Taino are extinct! <br /><br />Your slurs are a good example of the kind of bullying by politically correct activists that is making it increasingly difficult to discuss human variation without offending someone's ill-motivated sensitivities. Thankfully, this blog is a cultural Marxist-free zone, so you had better find a different target to bully.<br /><br /><i>But I do find it peculiar that, in the face of my simple request to define your terms and criteria, all I get in response is dancing: name calling, evasion, and diversion.</i><br /><br />You've spent about a dozen posts with your one idea. Time to find another.<br /><br /><i>I find this particularly peculiar because you, yourself, said ". . . .there can be no named entity that is not somehow defined; if it is not defined, we enter the realm of opinion and leave the realm of science." Yet you insistently refuse to supply anything approximating an objective and transparent definition of what it means for an ethnic group to be extinct. Could this be because this notion of ethnic extinction depends more on opinion than on science?</i><br /><br />I have already shown why the Taino are extinct, on the basis of genetic and linguistic data. The fact that you choose to disregard that data or commit the Continuum Fallacy over and over again, does not mean that I have not provided a good argument why the Taino are extinct.Dienekeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.com