Gene. 2012 May 17. [Epub ahead of print]
Ancestral modal Y-STR haplotype shared among Romani and South Indian populations.
Regueiro M, Rivera L, Chennakrishnaiah S, Popovic B, Andjus S, Milasin J, Herrera RJ.
Abstract
One of the primary unanswered questions regarding the dispersal of Romani populations concerns the geographical region and/or the Indian caste/tribe that gave rise to the proto-Romani group. To shed light on this matter, 161 Y-chromosomes from Roma, residing in two different provinces of Serbian, were analyzed. Our results indicate that the paternal gene pool of both groups is shaped by several strata, the most prominent of which, H1-M52, comprises almost half of each collection's patrilineages. The high frequency of M52 chromosomes in the two Roma populations examined may suggest that they descend from a single founder that has its origins in the Indian subcontinent. Moreover, when the Y-STR profiles of haplogroup H derived individuals in our Roma populations were compared to those typed in the South Indian emigrants from Malaysia and groups from Madras, Karnataka (Lingayat and Vokkaliga castes) and tribal Soligas, sharing of the two most common haplotypes was observed. These similarities suggest that South India may have been one of the contributors to the proto-Romanis. European genetic signatures (i.e., haplogroups E1b1b1a1b -V13, G2a-P15, I-M258, J2-M172 and R1-M173), on the other hand, were also detected in both groups, but at varying frequencies. The divergent European genetic signals in each collection are likely the result of differential gene flow and/or admixture with the European host populations but may also be attributed to dissimilar endogamous practices following the initial founder effect. Our data also supports the notion that a number of haplogroups including G2a-P15, J2a3b-M67(xM92), I-M258 and E1b1b1-M35 were incorporated into the proto-Romani paternal lineages as migrants moved from northern India through Southwestern Asia, the Middle East and/or Anatolia into the Balkans.
Link
The mtDNA and linguistic evidence does not show the same kind of strong Southern Indian affinity, suggesting a possible male dominated migration from South India to Northwest India (probably Punjab) who marry local woman and then continue their migration through West Asia to Europe. This would also make this case remarkable for being one in which language of women rather than men in a culturally hybrid group prevails.
ReplyDeleteBest estimates from linguistic data support a migration from Punjab ca. 1000 CE-1030 CE, with some wiggle room up to perhaps a couple of centuries sooner.
I have yet to see any real convincing evidence concerning the "why" behind this quite exceptional long distance migration of an entire people, something that neither genetic evidence nor language can tell us. The dates would coincide with the Little Ice Age, and this period was disruptive in many historically documented societies.
They should compare more closely with Pakistani H if any.
ReplyDeletewhich is where they belong.
Due to Muslim religion there is lot of middle east , Afghan migration to Pakistan . Ratio of H has gone down drastically in Pakistan.
The Y-DNA of the Druze (whose ethnogenesis is about the time of Gypsy exodus) is more Pakistani (relative to other parts of South Asia) (about 35% L) than the Gypsies.
ReplyDeleteH is Pan Indian, F may be more south India
ReplyDelete"Autosomally the Druze are as indigenous as they can be."
ReplyDeleteSo you want to define the whole region after a small medieval community that was founded by a mix of Levantines, Yemenites, Kurdish, Egytpians & possibly other people! Its not like they closed themselves up in the Paleolithic!
What matters is Y-DNA so we know where they came from, anybody will fit autosomally sooner or later. However, Y-DNA remains the only indicator of origin.
In the Roma case, they need to find more downstream H1 Y-SNPs in both Roma and the suspected founder popluations & they will reach an answer
Sorry Dienekes, Little off topic.
ReplyDeletebmdriver,
Islamic Invasion is a big word. It did not come from Arabia. even if it did by Mir Kassim, It is minor. Indian Sub continent in Homogenenous genetic pool of y R1a, R2, , H1, L1, , F, C with other minor groups. There is no proof otherwise.
N W part of Sub continent converted to Muslim and fought with others. Most of the Muslim atrocities if any happened in Pakistan and fully converted. 1/3 or Pakistani Muslim Last names are Brahmin/Rajput origin.
Current India is mostly did not face much of it.
actually People who faced Hindu discrimination got converted in Bangladesh.
Religious conversion is part of society. Majority Indians were Hindus/Buddhists/ then hindus or Muslims. at some point of time.
Due to some historical event Roma decided to travel west by Force or choice.
Unknown, you don't know what you are talking about; autosomes are much more informative about origins than uniparental markers. Also, I never said anything about Paleolithic; I use the term "indigenous" in a relative sense. Lastly, I said the Druze are genetically fairly indigenous for their own region, and did not refer to a larger region.
ReplyDelete@ Unknown:
ReplyDelete"So you want to define the whole region after a small medieval community that was founded by a mix of Levantines, Yemenites, Kurdish, Egytpians & possibly other people!"
With all due respect, you should study the available genetic data, before opining on such questions.
The Druze do not appear to be a mix of Levantines, Yemenites, Kurds, Egyptians, and "possibly other people." Based on all of the available genetic data, they appear to be a population with roots (principally) from the more northern parts of the Levant. Central, and northern Syria are good bets, considering that some Druze now living in the southern Levant speak in Arabic dialects most similar to those found in Aleppo. This also fits quite nicely with the fact that their R-M269 modal is most similar to the AMH, from among the several West Asian peoples relatively rich in R-M269. A N Syrian location would place them within close proximity of the Alawites, another population with a relative abundance of R-M269. There are other elements of their genome-wide profile one could refer to.
South Central Haplo...I guess thats the difference between theory and reality, the conversion and islamic invasion of india is WELL read throughout India, in every Indian faith, from a young age are told of the Islamic invasion of India, the torture, forced conversion, genocide and slave trade. Forced conversion are part and parcel of a man made religous system of which is a core feature of Christianity and Islam.
ReplyDeletePakistan is 100% par to India, the partition was done be outsiders, the killing of upto 1million people during the parition has never ever been fully acknowledged. To this day, many Indians want Pakistan and Bangladesh back, its current form as an islamic land is nothing compared to its original home as a dharmic land. Today we see many Christian and Muslim converts who try to dilute the past.
"Pakistan is 100% par to India"
ReplyDeleteI'd be very surprised if the population of South Asia forms anything other than a cline, basically from north to south. Near the borders the people will be part of a cline stretching beyond those borders. Because pakistan is in the northwest I'd expect it to have commonality with countries further northwest.
"the partition was done be outsiders, the killing of upto 1million people during the parition has never ever been fully acknowledged".
From an outsider's perspective it is my understanding that the partition was a product of internal politics. The killing of up to a million people during the partition is fully acknowledged by most and is the explanation usually given as the main reason for the partition. I agree that the killing continued after partition though.
"Forced conversion are part and parcel of a man made religous system of which is a core feature of Christianity and Islam".
I'd hesitate to claim that Hindus are blameless in the religious divisions in South Asia. Religion in general is the problem, not specific religions. My main hope for the future is that militant atheism never joins the circus.
My main hope for the future is that militant atheism never joins the circus.
ReplyDeleteIt already has, in the past. Communist East Germany is one such example. Ask Germany's new president about his experience...
But I agree, non-secularism and absence of religious freedom have been at the core of humanity's problems for millennia. Unfortunately, to this day, religion is too easily and too frequently used by the most contradicted powerful people as a political tool. No - you were not born that religion - your ideas are at your liberty, no one can guess or foresee or control them.