Oldest remains of Caspian Horse discovered in North of IranDuring the eighth season of archaeological research in Gohar Tappeh, in the northern Iranian province of Mazandaran, archaeologists have discovered the remains of a horse identified as the Caspian also known as the Māzandarān Horse, the oldest breed of horse in the world still in existence.
The remains were discovered in a cemetery dating back to the late Bronze and early Iron age, around 3400 BCE.
“Due to the form, figure and size of the discovered remains of the horse, we now have the oldest evidence for Caspian horse ancestry at hand”, said Ali Mahforuzi, the director of the archaeological team in Gohar Tappeh.
...
The Gohar Tappeh historical site with a 50 hectare area is located in the eastern part of Mazandaran province between the cities of Neka and Behshahr, north of Iran. It is one of the most important archaeological sites in Iran located near the Caspian Sea, which carries the secret of an ancient civilisation. It is also believed that Gohar Tappeh once enjoyed a complicated urbanisation some 6,500 to 7,000 years ago.
...
The Caspian horse or the ‘Kings’ Horse’, was celebrated in ancient Iran as a chariot horse for racing and in battle, and presented to kings and queens as a valuable gift and is known to be favoured by Darius the Great.
The Caspian horse was thought to have disappeared into antiquity, until 1965 when the American wife of an Iranian aristocrat called Louise Firouz went on an expedition on horseback and discovered small horses in the Iranian mountainous regions south of the Caspian Sea.
The Caspian horse has been recently discovered to be particularly genetically diverse.
So what? There is no clue to estabilish the fact that these horses were used to warfare in that ancient time, actually chariot horses came in attention around warfare in 1800 b.c in mesopotemia, even in rig-veda(1700-1100 b.c??) there is no notion of horses used in wars.
ReplyDeleteAre you having a conversation with yourself? Where did you see it argued in either this post or my previous one that early horses were used in warfare?
ReplyDeleteWell,I am just saying that horses do not support the A.I.T or A.M.T to bharata.
ReplyDeleteIt all goes back to defending the ridiculous "Out of India" theory...
ReplyDeleteAnd another fact is the tocharian, which have shown a strong chance of being really close to "original" and "kentum" form of i.e. Languages but unfortunately it is only present from 1st century a.d. And later, so its clear that kentum centum divide is not needed to be conclusive to distinguise depths of an i.e. Language!
ReplyDeleteI am not defending any theory though i am a brahmin of R1a1* y-dna with a clade depth time of 14340 bp and the fact that there is not a single archaeological clue to the "academic" theory to the country of mine but...
ReplyDeleteThanks for picking this story up. Interesting news and interesting site generally.
ReplyDeleteLet me give you an good article about our good and "real" "academic" theory of the so called indo-aryan migration to India and its archaeological "supports" and "evidences".
ReplyDeletehttp://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/19th-century-paradigms.html
@ Nirjhar007
ReplyDeleteR1a1* derives from R1a/M420.
We have some, also in Italy. Have you ever found R1a/M420 in India?
Let me give you an good article about our good and "real" "academic" theory of the so called indo-aryan migration to India and its archaeological "supports" and "evidences".
ReplyDeleteThat is what is called a "strawman argument". Attacking the 19th century arguments for the AIT is irrelevant to the 21st century arguments for it.
I just wanted to let you know how much I enjoy your blog.
ReplyDeleteI'm a geologist/HS science teacher with an interest in genetics & the tracing of humankind's ancestry.
I direct my students to your blog as a resource when doing their genetics projects.
I really appreciate your links to published papers.
Re: "R1a1* derives from R1a/M420.
ReplyDeleteWe have some, also in Italy. Have you ever found R1a/M420 in India?"
This paper had found some R1a*, but M420 was not tested, only the marker upstream of M420: http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v54/n1/fig_tab/jhg20082t1.html#figure-title
Underhill's paper which looked at M420 in some Indian population found none, but they did not test many populations including the Sahariya. Nevertheless, Underhill did note the diversity of M198: "Analysis of associated STR diversity profiles revealed that among the R1a1a*(xM458) chromosomes the highest diversity is observed among populations of the Indus Valley yielding coalescent times above 14 KYA (thousands of years ago), whereas the R1a1a* diversity declines toward Europe where its maximum diversity and coalescent times of 11.2 KYA are observed in Poland, Slovakia and Crete."
Surprisingly ISOGG says: "R1a-M420 is believed to have arisen on the Eurasian Steppe or the Indus Valley"
They must be guessing since as you say to date no R1a-M420 has been seen on the Indus.
"only the marker upstream of M420"
ReplyDeleteI think that was M173. The downstream marker tested was SRY1532.2/SRY10831.2
LOL2INFINITY!
ReplyDeletehey guys are you running a secret nazi club?
Dienke have you read a single sentence of the article any way?
I mean:
1.the articles subject is BMAC which is discovered by sarianidi quite recently! Not old than 30-40 years or so. So according to you last century was the 19th right? And
2. M420 is very rare, tell me how many M420 guys you have met and danced with? Red-indians of americas have the largest frequency of it, so you can talk to them.
3. M458 has its oldest clade and best diversity in india.
4. No personal attacks.
Sarianidi holds that the BMAC originated in the Syro-Anatolian region, which is roughly where I derive the Indo-Aryans from, ultimately. If you think that supports "Out of India", get a map.
ReplyDeleteWell BMAC is clearly connected by guys like asko parpola, michael witzel as an indo-iranian site on their path to south asia which is a great joke proven by B.B.LAL in this article.
ReplyDeleteSo what its founder have said it originated in syro-anatolia! it still used by the 'academic' people to prove their hoax of AIT and now AMT.
And what yours is west eurasia right?
You recently said that anatolian hypothesis is still'alive' as U5 mtdna shows agricultural spread identicall to that that theory PIE home.
Well guess what u5 is VANISH in india my dear indologist.
@ Nirjhar999
ReplyDelete“M420 is very rare, tell me how many M420 guys you have met and danced with? Red-Indians of Americas have the largest frequency of it, so you can talk to them”.
Nervous answer. Very weak position. “Red-Indians of Americas”? What are you speaking about?
Amongst the four persons found all over the world who are R1a* (M420+, SRY10831.2-) one is from Benevento, Italy, one of the most conservative regions of the Italian Apennine (Ysearch: ID: D47SE). The others are from Central and Eastern Europe.
To AP I can say that Indians are probably R-SRY10831.2+. If they wont find there any R-M420+, it will mean that they have some ancient R, but the most recent subclades after R-M420 was born in Europe and returned to India. This in spite of their unexpected nationalism, but truth is truth and they shall understand it.
"To AP I can say that Indians are probably R-SRY10831.2+."
ReplyDeleteYes the R1a* here - http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v54/n1/fig_tab/jhg20082t1.html - are SRY10831.2. I was thinking about the upstream xM269 R1* as being potentially M420.
Just because m420 is found with some europeans doesnt mean its the origin area, however m458 is 16000 year old in india. And m458 surely indian in origin.
ReplyDeleteNo PIE archaeological site have yielded M420 but M458 is their in Andronovo, Tarim basin etc.
"however m458 is 16000 year old in india. And m458 surely indian in origin. No PIE archaeological site have yielded M420 but M458 is their in Andronovo, Tarim basin etc."
ReplyDeleteThe above is incorrect - where did you get this information from?
See the andronovo and tarim in wiki.
ReplyDelete"Sarianidi holds that the BMAC originated in the Syro-Anatolian region, which is roughly where I derive the Indo-Aryans from, ultimately. If you think that supports "Out of India", get a map."
ReplyDeleteSarianidi believed BMAC was southwest S.W. Iranian. There have been evidence as to cultures ancesteral to BMAC in N.E Iran, such as this recently discovered 3700BC site..... http://www.payvand.com/news/13/nov/1138.html