January 11, 2010

Guess the origin of these four composites

ANSWER (15/1/2010):

Russian, Cypriot
Romanian, Spanish

END ANSWER

These were sent to me by an Italian reader of the blog.

You can guess their country of origin, language group (e.g., Slavic, Germanic, Romance, Finno-Ugrian, Greek, etc.), geographical origin (N/S/W/E Europe or W/S/C Asia), or whatever else you can intuit about them.


50 comments:

  1. Top Left: Polish
    Top Right: Greek
    Bottom Left: German
    Bottom Right: Italian

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  2. Kind of an unfair comparison - all of them tend to SE Europe.

    LT: Ukraine to Baltic

    RT: Generalized Norther/East Mediterranean

    LB: Romania to Slovakia

    RB: Northern Alpine/SE Germany

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  3. LT - Slavic...obviously
    RT - Greek
    LB - Some type of Germanic
    RB - Mediterranean, likely Italian.

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  4. LT - Ukrainian-Bielorussian
    RT - Balkan but not Greek
    LB - Romanian-Hungarian
    RB - Spaniard

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  5. Looks like a composite of 2 images.

    But If I saw these 4 guys on the street I would say.

    Top Left: Borderline Polish to German
    Top Right: Borderline Italian to Spanish
    Bottom Left: Slavic Heading to the Balkans
    Bottom Right: Greek - Greco-Roman

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  6. Left side seem to be Slavic or Balkan type. Right side are more Meditteranean, possibly Near eastern. None of them look German to me at all.

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  7. top right=Greek-Bulgar-Turk-Andalusian

    bottom right=Italian-Spanish

    top left=Russian-Ukrainian-Bielorussian

    bottom left=Czech-Slovak-Polish

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  8. they are all canadian...

    :D

    Of course! (why not)

    My hunch (from left to right and top to bottom):
    1. Eastern Europe
    2. SE Europe (incl. South Italy) or West Asia
    3. Germany
    4. Spain or France

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  9. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  10. TL: North-East European: hg. R1a1 (the Asiatic origin is clear from the right eye a little bit closer than the left one)
    TR: Italian from South Italy: hg. R1b1b2a
    BL: South East European: hg. J2
    BR: Spaniard, hg. R1b1b2a1

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  11. ok.
    I better dont read any comments here before I have guessed them.

    Top Left:
    Finnish or Baltic

    Top Right:
    Turkish, Greek, Israel - Eastern Regions of the mediteranian sea.

    Bottom Left:
    Polish, Ukrainian, Russian

    Bottom Right:
    Portuguese, Spanish, Italian - Western parts of the mediteranian sea.

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  12. TL = East/Slavic - Polish/Belorussian
    TR = South East - Southern Italy, Greece, Bulgaria
    BL = North East/Baltic - Finn/Estonian
    BR = ?? - Austria, Northern Italy, Spanish, Croatian

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  13. "they are all canadian"

    I was going to say they were all Irish.

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  14. Top Left: Slav - Czech
    Top Right: Greek
    Bottom Left:Italina
    Bottom Right: Spanish

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  15. Hey Gioiello, how come Italians at deCODEme are showing 3 times more East Asian ancestry than me? Are they more R1a1a? Hard to believe.

    Anyway...

    TL: Ukrainian
    TR: Greek
    BL: Balkan
    BR: Spanish

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  16. Top Left: Finnic
    Top Right: Southern Europe
    Bottom Left: Russian (I have a friend who looks almost exactly like that)
    Bottom Right: Germanic

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  17. Polak, I'd be glad to write to you if I know your real name. Perhaps you know I don't like to hide me and others hide themselves.I have always written, also on "dna-forums", that also R1b1b2s have the right eye closer than the left, due to their ancient Asian origin. Of course Eastern R1a1s have more mixture with Asians, like hg. N, then their aspect is more "Asian". I have also supported that probably the ancestors of R1a1, the first wave from Asia present in India, was present also in Rhaetia (DYS392=11), then it isn't said that also East European R1a1 doesn't come from the Italian refugium like R1b1b2 and probably Indo-European languages, linked with Rhaetian-
    Etruscan. If you send to me your email address, I'll be glad to write to you. Mine is gioiello.tognoni@gmail.com.

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  18. The four stooges.

    TL: blond mongol
    TR: the child of an Aegean prostitute
    BL: Balkanic prison detainee
    BR: mister nice guy

    overall average IQ: 95
    due to high leafy vegetable diet

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  19. I would place all of four in former Yugoslavia

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  20. Terry said:
    I was going to say they were all Irish.

    You're kidding right?!

    I grew up in Ireland, and TL, TR and BL are definitely not Irish looking, BR is closest to being Irish looking.

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  21. You could find all 4 types in Russia though...

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  22. From top left to right

    1. Slavic (rather central or Northern Slavic)
    2. Lebanse or Greece or Southern Italy
    3. Switzerland-Austria-to-Kosovo
    4. Iberic Peninsula or France

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  23. "You're kidding right?!"

    I think he was. Generally, I would classify West Europeans (including Southern Europe, and North Europe) in the dolichocephalic category, or as I refer to it, "oval-headed". Obviously, there are exceptions but brachycephaly is not that common.

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  24. LT = Slavic
    RT = Greek or Balkans or Southern Italy
    LB = Southern Germany/Swizerland/Northern Italy/
    RB = Portuguese (or a Spaniard)

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  25. TL: Serbian or Croatian
    TR: Italian
    BL: Polish
    BR: French

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  26. On the Irish thingy, I'd say that IMO the bottom left guy is not that far from some Irish phenotypes, though Irish faces are normally quite more rugged (deeper nasion for instance). But there is an "alpinoid/CM" tendency in the Islands, which is not necesarily brachi anyhow (I am brachi and I am longfaced too), just broad-faced.

    The bottom right guy is probably too dark for Ireland, though in overall face type is not that far maybe. The two top guys are just too clearly oriental.

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  27. This reminds me to average face experiments of a German university.

    that was however not on race but on beauty.

    face form 32 male faces blended together:
    http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/durchschnittsgesichter/m%2801-32%29_gr.jpg

    Dont know if all 32 had been Germans. The blended one looks rather dark...

    64 female faces blended into one:
    http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/durchschnittsgesichter/w%2801-64%29_gr.jpg

    100 randomly picked people, ugliest 4 females blended:
    http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/schemaanpassungen/w%281-4%29-g_an_supermorph-s_gr.jpg

    100 randomly picked people, most attractive 4 blended into 1:
    http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/schemaanpassungen/w%2861-64%29-g_an_supermorph-s_gr.jpg

    same for male:
    most ugly 4 males blended:
    http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/prototypen/m_unsexy_gr.jpg

    most attractive 4 males blended:
    http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/prototypen/m_sexy_gr.jpg

    "Virtual Miss Germany"
    8 local beautyqueens blended into 1:
    http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/missgermany/virtuellemiss_gr.jpg

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  28. Maju, although some people from Irish descent told me a story about quite some of the Spaniards from the Armada surviving in Ireland in spite of it all:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Armada_in_Ireland

    I do know two Irish who looked Spanish to me, only that they looked as if they hadn't seen light for at least 400 years :-)

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  29. Per Bauchet'07, Iberian (non-Basque) component is more commonly found in England than in Ireland. Basque component is the opposite. Whatever the case they are minor components in either island.

    That doesn't mean that people may not look the same occasionally but must be for some other reasons (like older relations not reflected in autosomal clustering or whatever). What I say about broadfaced blond (or red haired) rather pale Irish is true in my experience. I'd even dare say that darker types might be more common in Great Britain in fact.

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  30. "You're kidding right?!"

    I was actually, although for some obscure reason I did think of Ireland quite qickly when I saw the arrangement. I suspect it was the fact that there is quite a diversity even just within Ireland. But no-one I've seen in or from Ireland has such tightly curley hair as a couple of them have. And, as you say, even the top left doesn't really look Irish.

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  31. I hate to bring up Hollywood but I will anyways.
    Take the following Irish actors or those of Irish descent.

    -Colin Farrell, Pierce Brosnan, Liam Neeson, Cillian Murphy, Johnathan Rhys Meyers, Matthew McConaughey.

    All of whom have dolichocephalic heads and are truly representative of the West European skull shape which seem predominant in North and South Europe as well, as well as among Germans. There are a minority of Irish that do have broad skulls, as well as some West Europeans who fit that category but it is in the minority for sure.

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  32. I would rate someone like Aidan Quinn as being typically Irish, and he, like myself, comes from the Center of Ireland - blue eyes, light brown hair, thin lips and/or narrow mouth, narrow nose whether long or short, well developed chin, no brow ridges, relatively close set eyes:
    http://kateblogsworth.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/aidan_quinn_1013_3.jpg

    You get a darker type in the South West, like Roy Keane - who still has the narrow mouth, narrow nose, well developed chin, no brow ridges:
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_jh9PRrif-2c/SKwVWWoBRlI/AAAAAAAAAjI/c-P1aHbM5d4/s400/roy_keane.jpg

    Of the 4 images presented, none really has a very narrow nose, all have fuller lips, BL has brow ridges, only BR has closer eyes and a well developed chin.

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  33. The list you're posting definitively places Irish in an "Atlantid" (West Med to Nordid) mesocephalic, long-headed continuum. However I was thinking in other not much less representative types like Martin McGuinness, Bertie Ahern or Mary Coughlan, who indeed show a broader face type with "alpinid" affinities, that is not uncommon in Ireland anyhow.

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  34. 1 - Ukrainian, Belorussian
    2 - Romanian (undoubtedly)
    3 - German and Poland, maybe Finno-Ugrian, Russian
    4 - French, German

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  35. "2 - Romanian (undoubtedly)"

    Romanian speaking here. I too found it to be simmilar to a type found in Romania, particularly in the southern areas and among the urban population, which I believe is due to historical (from Roman times up to the Phanariotes) mediterranean influence. Though, as said, found in Romania (e.g. http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=dragos+bucurenci&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=7slNS4zLH5yI_Abiv_mfDg&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCsQsAQwAw), I nonetheless classified it as Balkan (but not Greek, as it doesn't exhibit the saggy eyelids and cheeks I associate with Eastern Mediterraneans), since it was the bottom left picture which bears a striking similarity to a type very commonly found in Romania, particularly in the countryside (but I admit that they will rather tend to be more brachi (dinarid?) than the alpinid type presented above)

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  36. All white boys look alike to me.

    (Actually, all four are Jewish!)

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  37. TL : Polish-Ukrainian
    TR : Italian-Greek
    BL : Hungarian
    BR : Iberian

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  38. Bottom right is so beautiful; he's gotta be Greek.

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  39. Bottom right is so beautiful; he's gotta be Greek.

    I know the answers by now and nope (that doesn't mean that he does not have some Greek blood). He's kinda cute indeed but maybe is the smile and the artificial "perfection" created by the illusory composite.

    Anyhow, I want Dienekes to post the answers officially, because I want to make a remark and I'm biting my tongue already for too many hours. :)

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  40. BR is beautiful, (and TR isn't bad either!) and I can't see him as anything other than Italian, unless perhaps from southern France or Iberia. Actually, other than TL I think you could find all of them in one part or another of the Italian peninsula or islands. Even TL is not that different from some of the Italians in the Istria area. If I had to choose different areas. TL Slavic of some sort, TR southern, or southeastern Europe (southern Italy, Greece or Turkey), BL, central Europe(Slovakia, even Austria?

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  41. "...maybe is the smile and the artificial "perfection" created by the illusory composite."

    Yeah, these guys are all improved by the artificially perfect symmetry.

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  42. its not onl the symetry that makes "averaged" faces beautiful.

    Its because we dont like things that look not normal.

    In an "averaged" face, there are only things wich are "normal".

    There was a beauty test.
    people had to vote 1-7 (7 cutest and 1 ugliest).

    They put some averaged faces in it. (fixed the hair and all, that it looks normal)

    The best REAL girl got a average vote of 3.7 (from 7 possible)

    The best computergenerated face reached 6.1 (from 7 possible)

    With girls, the absolute highest possible cuteness is reached by:

    1. Average a face from a lot of faces

    2. Bring it to the proportions of a child.

    Kind of scary however. ;)


    Example:

    Women with proportions of an adult:
    http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/kindchenschema/kindfrau_c/kindfrau_c_100_gr.jpg

    Exactly the same face, but blended 50% into the proportions of a childs face:

    http://www.beautycheck.de/cmsms/uploads/images/bilder/kindchenschema/kindfrau_c/kindfrau_c_50_gr.jpg

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  43. I said before I wanted to make a remark as soon as the answers were officially posted, and this is how extremely different are the Romanian and the Spaniard averages!

    I say because for example a "Romance" classification, as suggested in the original post would have been totally misleading. And I still have vague memories of Dienekes defending blood closeness between these two extremely different (within Europe) populations just because they speak related tongues (supposedly related to Roman genetic and not just cultural and political expansion). These composites evidence that Romanians cluster with Central or Eastern Europeans and not at all with SW Europeans.

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  44. Yeah, and I actually called the Romanian face (and two others, approximately) in the second post of the thread.

    The Spanish face and the Portuguese from the other group (understandably) look quite similar. Although I maintain that there is something northern Alpine about the Spanish face - you can see similar (although with a bit German-ness mixed in) faces from Switzerland to East Bavaria, and even North into Saxony. See, e.g., Michael Ballack: http://images.teamsugar.com/files/users/1/17989/29_2007/HBWrxAqJ_Pxgen_r_467xA.jpg

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  45. The Spaniard blend's apportions are very similar to the Hungarian of the other thread, just that the Hungarian is blonder.

    The Portuguese blend is also similar to the Spaniard (how can't it) but I find it a little more "Greek" (in fact the blend reminds me to Dienekes in one of his avatars somewhat), that's why I think I called him "undefined South European".

    The Romanian and the Polish are also very similar. And the Israeli of the other thread I was tempted to say "Palestinian" though I opted for "North African but maybe too light". How many Arab players does the Israeli selection have?

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  46. And the Israeli of the other thread I was tempted to say "Palestinian" though I opted for "North African but maybe too light". How many Arab players does the Israeli selection have?

    Exactly my thoughts - although the players may just (as in many sports and many countries) come from slightly underprivileged portions of the society, and thus e.g. not represent Ashkenazim very well.

    Soccer players don't necessarily represent the entire society very well. For another example, until recently, there were few players from the the Eastern German states in the Bundesliga (with Ballack being one notable exceptions).

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  47. About Hungarian pigmentation. Look anthropology maps. Type in google image searcher: "hair color map" or type: "eye color map".
    Black hair is not Hungarian, only gypsy (roma) jewish and descendantsd of southern-slavic people have dark-black hair in Hungary.

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  48. vast majority of romanians (as typical balkan people have olive skin dark hair and brown eyes. Just look the anthropology maps of Europe about average pigmentations. (Or go to these countries.)

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Stay on topic. Be polite. Use facts and arguments. Be Brief. Do not post back to back comments in the same thread, unless you absolutely have to. Don't quote excessively. Google before you ask.